The Agency Shift featuring Jackson Beall

Agency brokerage is no longer a niche corner of the freight world. We’re seeing it pull in seasoned brokers who want to run their own business, keep more of what they earn, and still have real back office infrastructure behind them. Jackson Beal joins us to break down what an agency model actually is, why it’s showing up everywhere in the 3PL and freight brokerage space, and what most people misunderstand about the move from a W-2 brokerage.

We get practical about who succeeds as an agent and who struggles. We talk cradle-to-grave expectations, what “portable book of business” really means when shippers drag their feet on onboarding, and the unsexy realities like cash flow during a 60 to 90 day transition and buying your own insurance. We also dig into the day-to-day advantage of strong carrier relationships: lane history, carrier notes, detention and layover pay, and why treating carriers like people becomes a real edge when the market tightens.

Then we go deeper on the tech wave hitting logistics. AI can now handle check calls, customer updates, and even rate negotiation, but it also raises the stakes on freight fraud, spoofed emails, fake BOLs, and identity tricks that look legit at first glance. We wrap with market signals like tender rejection shifts, fuel pressure, and what we see coming in Q3 and Q4, plus a lighter round on car projects and life outside freight.

If you found this useful, subscribe, share it with a broker or shipper who needs it, and leave a quick review with your biggest takeaway.

Transcript

Recording Started

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Between Two Tidles, episode four, starring Andrew, Jackson Beal, old friend. Welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate it. It's good to be here again.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Yeah, so first things first, we had our first recording sniffu with Jackson.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

So we got to the fourth episode before we did it. I think that's still kind of impressive being new to this personally. But you know, I mean, we're gonna eventually have one, but it's the fourth episode.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

And Jackson's been kind enough to come back to actually get this episode done. So thank you for that. I've learned a few things and so it it should never happen again. And but now I'm going to have my anxiety spike every time I send an invite to make sure that it's recording in the correct place. And so just wanted to preface that because we'll we'll probably have some current market trends we talk about that you know weren't happening when we said we'd be releasing the episode. So first and foremost, Jackson, thank you for joining us again. I believe you're so if you want the transcripts from episode one, please let me know. I do have those. So I can I can I can gladly send that to you directly to any of our subscribers. But uh Andrew, uh give us a little background and bio on yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

Yeah, for sure. So obviously I know you guys have been in the industry for 11 years now. I cut my teeth at Schneider originally, spent three or four years there. That's how I met both of you. Sarah was on the sales floor, and you were a team leader and for Mighty Market 8, and you know, learned a lot about brokerage, learned a lot about life, and and again, towards the end of my career there, spent some time with Tommy. And when Tommy left, it was also time for me to go. So got to go experience the customer side of the supply chain industry for seven years, running uh internal supply chain for a lighting and plumbing distributor, really got a full grasp on kind of the 360 picture on not only domestic but international supply chain, learned a lot. It was an awesome experience. And then about 18 months ago, got the opportunity to come over to Freight Flex and join the agency program, which at the time I knew nothing about, but I'm very, you know, good friends with the CEO at Freight Flex and and have always respected him and kind of used him as a mentor. So it was a logical step for me to come over here and and preach the gospel about agency for a little bit, you know?

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Yeah, that's awesome. I you've been hearing about agency more, more and more. You you think past two to three years. And for those who don't really understand agency, would you kind of go into how that's different from a traditional brokerage? I've had to educate myself, honestly. So I think there's a lot of our listeners who might want to understand, you know, why is there all this buzz around agency and what what are the main differences?

SPEAKER_03 2:45

100%. So obviously, like when we when I was coming up and and learning the the trade and the industry, you know, my only exposure to agency was it was kind of a dirty word, right? It was Landstar. Like everyone associated agency with 1099 people running their own books under the Landstar name. And that was kind of all I knew about it. And really that's that's all I knew about it for some time. And then probably I was coming towards the end of my career where I was previously, and and Reed had opened Freight Flex and started up and running and had told me about it, and all these brokers moving their books of business over and and kind of flourishing and building their own business. So, and I and to your point, it's it really does seem like it's been the hot topic over the past two years, more than anything. A lot of big logos in the industry are shifting to it. So, in a nutshell, what agency is, is it's a platform for tenured brokers to basically build their own brokerage or 3PL, but with a financial and technical backing. So basically, what's expected of an agent is you're a cradle to grave, you're doing sales, you're doing carrier operations. But what the agency provider should be doing for you is handling your back office, right? Your invoicing, your carrier pay, all of your customer credit, your customer onboarding. So it really is we're a platform provider for guys to come and open their own brokerages. And there's guys that run solo, and there's guys that run, you know, up to 10 or 12 and even larger associations. So it really, I think when when you saw a big push for return to office from a lot of companies, you know, a lot of guys have gotten really comfortable, you know, running running armchair brokerage from their house. And why go back in if I can branch off and go do this on my own? For you know, what is a a vastly different commission split than what they're used to? So there is an opportunity to make more money in some cases. So I think it's you know, for the the hungry entrepreneurial of this current generation, there seems to be a big push for it.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

So leading agency recruiting, you've got to have like a playbook for who you're looking for, right? And so, like, what are some of your green flags? What are your red flags? What are those things that really make you kind of nervous about onboarding someone?

SPEAKER_03 4:57

100%. So I think my biggest, like my biggest eye-opening experience when jumping into this role was was qualifying candidates to in exactly what you're talking about. Big first factor is cradle to grave, right? There's tons of big companies out there and small companies that separate their their floor, right? You've got sellers and you've got carrier salespeople. And very rarely have I experienced someone that could do the full package competently. And I think that's the number one qualifier, just because if you can't do both pieces of the process, I we're that's that's not where we're providing support, right? Like we're not gonna step in and book your loads for you, and we're not gonna go out and close customers for you either. So being cradle to grave and fully focused on both sides of it and competent, I think is a huge factor. The second piece, too, honestly, is gonna be customer relationships. This is a scenario where we've seen guys build from scratch, and it certainly can be done. I've seen some killer salespeople absolutely build from scratch because they have a non-compete, non-solicit. So they have to go out and start from the ground up. And when it comes to guys like that, it's wanting to see tenure of guys that have been there before. I mean, we saw it all the time. I've definitely known, you know, we've got some some similar contacts that I've seen do it. Like a book of business can be built again, but it takes a certain personality and a certain drive to be able to literally build it from the ground up. That being said, if you do come from a company that has a you can have a portable book of business and you have that customer relationships, it's a lot easier to translate that over. But that also comes with the conversation of do you feel fully confident your customers are going to come with you? I mean, all the time you hear, you know, we've seen it here and we've seen it other places where guys feel like they're gonna come over and bring 10 or 12 customers. And when all the chips fall in the right places, you know, their customers in their peak season or they're not willing to onboard board another broker right now, regardless of the relationship. So you've got to plan for that. Really, the third factor that was probably I learned later on in the recruiting process is I as I became more of a people person because I've always been operationally mindset, is making sure they're set up for success for the transition, right? Have they financially prepared for having to make, you know, a 60 to 90 day transition of paychecks, right? What does it look like to have to go purchase insurance on your own? Kind of walking them through the full steps. You know, what I think we do at Freight Flex specifically, and I pride myself on, is we never take on anyone. I don't feel like it can set up for success. And I want to be fully transparent from start to finish. Like here, here could be some potential pain points when you make the transition. Here's what I don't like about the situation. Here's what I do like about the situation. Because at the end of the day, I mean, you are asking someone to leave a W-2 role in most cases and a secure paycheck and go out on their own. And it's it's eat what you kill. So, you know, we want to make sure that we're doing our our dandest in some cases to make sure, hey, we're gonna provide you everything we said we were gonna provide you, but we believe that you can do this.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

How are you preparing carriers today to share capacity amongst agencies, right? Because it's better to collectively purchase as one. What does that look like within your operations in a cradle-to-grave model?

SPEAKER_03 8:05

Great question. I I love that question because I don't think that's talked about enough. So within our system, we're partnered with Ty for our TMS and we love Ty. We do give agents access to basically when you go in and price a load, right? You're gonna get three tools. You're gonna get dat, you're gonna get green screens, which is now Triumph Intelligence, but we also have an internal pricing tool that lists out all the carriers that have run on a lane when you're doing truckload quoting, what they've run for, the type or the mode. And then we also put in carrier notes for every single carrier. We service card them as they go in. So you can see was the service good? Was there an issue on the load? And I think it's something we preach pretty fluently across both sides of the business, which is especially in today's market, we treat carriers right, right? If you owe them detention, you pay detention, right? If if they're owed a layover, you pay a layover. Like we treat drivers and carriers like people. It's not this, hey, you know, this gone are the days of there's a thousand trucks in the market and we can just burn everyone to the ground and chase to the bottom. Like this is about creating relationships, creating respect, which is a lot. I mean, I remember you pounding this into us when I was coming up as a broker, right? Like you build relationships, you treat it just like you would a customer book of business because we are now approaching that time where people that have relationship carriers, they're going to be very, very lucrative in this environment because the carriers that they remember, right? They've got a long memory. They're gonna remember who took care of them and who didn't. So it's it's hard to coach, but I think with the right mentality and really the right culture, you know, you'll see, you'll see who will prevail in this environment.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Well, you talk about who's gonna prevail in this environment, but I think me and you both, and I think Brent 2 both have been in those roles where we've interviewed candidates and they're like, oh, I'm cradle to grave, I'm a rock star, I I can do this, I did everything from A to Z. What do you look for to really kind of maybe what questions would you ask, or what would you poke at to really evaluate? Are is this a true high performing cradle to grave person that could succeed an agency?

SPEAKER_03 10:16

That's a good, that's a good question. Honestly, I I mean there's a lot of cases, depending on how well they sell themselves to me. I ask for numbers, right? If I can get data and see the data, I want to see it because you do run into scenarios where we'll have someone that comes through and and they were an account executive, right? But more they were more is more of an account manager. So they may have customer interaction, but from a customer management standpoint, not necessarily a hey, I'm out there, you know, I'm on the pavement, I'm going door to door, or hey, I'm hitting the phones every day trying to close new business. Same thing on the carrier side. I think the carrier side is a little easier to vet out. I mean, buzzwords and certain tools, and I mean, my carrier guys, you really know, like my heavy hall guys specifically, I know and we're feeling them out because they'll they're actually pushing us. They're like, hey, I need to, I need access to this, I need truck stop, I need highway, I need oversize.io. Like they know exactly what they need to run their carriers. And in a lot of cases, when they have established business, they'll come to us and like, hey, I need to make sure the following MCs, like, do they fit in your qualifier carrier qualifications? Can I get them active in your system? And thankfully with tools like highway, like that's we'll set up a separate call. Like, we'll go through the MC list and I'll be like, yep, yep, nope, conditional. We can take a look at that one. So I think that's that's kind of it falls on both sides. Like with sales, like if if they're good sellers, they know their customers, they know their customer base, they know what they're good at. Same thing with carriers on the carrier side of things, they'll kind of come to the table of us and be like, hey, here's what I need to be successful to cover my my customers freight.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

And I think you you hit the crux of it and what a lot of times when you're looking at the sales side is do you have a hunter or do you have a farmer? You need you need a little bit about it.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

I love that terminology because we use it too.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Especially an agency, I feel like correct me if I'm wrong, you gotta be like 70-30 hunters because you gotta maintain the relationships and you could theoretically, if you grow it big enough, you can hire the support to really help you with the farming, but from the beginning, you gotta hunt. Like that, that's more of where you've got to lean.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

Absolutely, Sarah. I mean, it's one of those things where, you know, in a 70-30 split, you know, we we've kind of dialed down the numbers. In a 70-30 split, about a$15,000,$700 book of business a month is about a hundred thousand dollars take home after taxes. And if you want to be a farmer and you're happy with that, because you think about that in the grand scheme of a W-2 brokerage, that's not a very big book of business monthly, right? Like you're we're looking at ramp goals at a big business and going, 15K, I don't know about that. But to your point, there's some other guys out there that are like, Where where is where's the peak, right? How high can we go? Let's get out there and it's everyday hunter. And we've got we've got some guys on the top end of our agency scale that are just, you know, uh I never cease to amaze the commission checks. And those guys are still out there closing business. It's like, hey, can you go find this person in Zoom info? Hey, hey, we're trying to close this business. Can you know our president's really good about jumping on calls with our agents, especially with bigger logos and trying to get the business across the finish line? And and to your point, it's a mentality. You know who your farmers are and you know who your hunters are.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

What do you do if someone out kicks their coverage? Let's say they they've been in several bids, right? Yeah, and they actually all land at the same time and they need additional support. How does that work at Freight Flex?

SPEAKER_03 13:31

Yeah, so we've got we've kind of got we've got three options, right? And and for the solo guys, it depends on what they're looking for. We can basically they can choose to bring on a sub agent or an operator if they want to, and and they negotiate the split with their subagent however they want and then rewrite the contract for them. We provide payroll services. So if they wanted to W-2 someone and bring them on as a full-time employee, we can cater to that. There is a minimum associated with that just because for the purpose of running payroll, we kind of have to have a baseline of where we start that at. The third option is we've found a killer partner who I'm really happy with in Lighthir, and it's near shoring and offshore staffing. What we like about them specifically is they built their company up around specifically around TIE's TMS. So I know there's some other companies in the industry like Lean Solutions and a few other that I've heard of, but what we love about TIE is they're they come to our agents fully trained up in not only Freight Flexes protocol, but TIES TMS. So we can plug and play these guys as they say fit. I actually have a good example of that. We had a a solo that came on that runs a lot of flowers right before Valentine's Day. And he kind of prefed us in January. He's like, man, I'm gonna have this flower business kick up mid-February, and I'm gonna go from, I think he was running probably 120 loads a month at the time to almost 300, which is a solo operator, is is wild to me, right? So that's just and he's like, hey, I need an operator, and here's exactly what I need. And what's great about, you know, shout out to Drew Spence over at the LightHire team. You know, we get them into meetings with him, and Drew kind of lines out exactly what he's asking for, what they can provide, and then they get a solution and plug and play it pretty quick. And I haven't gotten a bad review from any of our agents we sent over there yet. So, and and I encourage my guys, everyone reaches a threshold to your point, and it's something that I think solos really need to keep in mind is it's great to close business, but you got to support the business too. So we get around that 150 to 200 load a month on your own scale, and it's like, hey, you you know, I can't tell you what to do with your own business, but I would strongly suggest you investing in some near shore offshore staffing.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

They hit the plateau, yeah, and they sit there and it's like the split's great. But once you hit your plateau, yeah, and and that you stay there, you stay there or dip to your point. You you can't really go any higher. And so you've got to make sure that you know what your your breaking point is and plan ahead.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Wow, it really sounds truly like their business owners. Like, I mean, you are a hundred percent a business owner because that that sounds like a business decision. You know, you know, it's you have to spend money to make money, right?

SPEAKER_03 16:08

I can make suggestions, right? But at the end of the day, it is their business, and we can suggest. And and I think you know, our our vice president Brianna Condon and our president Hunter Arnold, they've been doing this long enough to where they provide as much guidance as they really can to these guys, but you know, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. But again, I think it's something that makes unique. You know, I know there's some other programs out there like it, but you know, our our president of agency Hunter was the first agent over here at Freight Flex. So he did this for two years with his partner Talbert, and they kind of honed out exactly like what they needed to be successful. And then it's like, all right, can we replicate this? So we we really try to hang our hat on, you know, we're built by agents for agents because we've had guys that have sat in that seat and done this, and we know, you know, how to support you and how to lead you in the right direction to success.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

So you made a transition as like you went from strategic carrier cells and then you became a shipper for a while. Yeah. And so can you talk a little bit about that transition and also a little bit about the work you did and how that impacted your idea of carrier relations?

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Yeah, absolutely. So when I transitioned over, I I actually wanted to leave freight. I took on a role as a project estimator with wanting to be a project manager in construction and general contracting. I worked for a really eccentric entrepreneur, and and I man, I was drowning, right? Those first three months out of carrier sales and really out of a boiler room environment where I was coming into you know project estimation and what was really a lot of data entry and and book work. I mean, just not my thing. I mean, I'm I'm a phone guy, I'm a people person or a try to be or an operator, but sitting in front of a spreadsheet all day, think I thought I was getting fired. I did. I they pulled me in about three months in and they sat me down with the president and the the vice president of operations, and I was like, oh, this is not good. Like, this is the end. Time to go find something else, time to call Tommy. Like, and they're like, hey, we're gonna make you the director of logistics and supply chain. I was like, okay. It's like I want to be very clear, I have done domestic truckload, and that is the extent of my experience in this business. And they're like, you're gonna figure it out. We've got nothing but confidence in you. Which, you know, I I'll I I can never thank them enough for the opportunity because I did. I learned basically a 4 PL supply chain, all the way from you know, domestic truckload, box truck, final mile delivery to you know, uh ERP systems and warehousing and and distribution centers, and then finally imports, exports, air freight. I mean, really fully versed in it. And that's how I met Reed. He was my original rep over at Crane. That's who we were doing business with when I first started over there. I mean, and I can't think, you know, during that time, you know, Phil Whittle, Tom Clark, and Reed were all mentors, and really I probably got me through those first two years of taking on that role of me calling them every day. But I have a new problem. How do I solve this problem? Like, let's let's get our heads together and get me through this so I stay employed. But it it changed, it changed the rhetoric for me because obviously, coming from an environment where I became the person people were calling all day, and it made me reset, which was A, I always took phone calls from brokers, right? I I empathize with brokers and like, hey, I remember having to take the calls. I'll give the kid five minutes, right? I'll give the guy five minutes. Let's hear what you have, let's see what you got. Inevitably, what it was for us was a service relationship. You know, 90% of the business there was white glove final mile. So we had project managers on planes, going to job sites to be on site for delivery, to meet the driver, to check in the freight. And so, you know, not to say that probably larger logos couldn't handle it, but at the time, box truck and sprayer van was more of a niche market for brokers. And so we had to get a little more strategic with who we partnered with because again, they had to put up with a lot of guff from me and our team because I mean, two or three minutes late, I was on the phone, I was in someone's ear. I ran hot for probably six years straight trying to manage these on-site deliveries and and all this transit. But again, it you know, I came from a spot of perspective, and I it I had to mature to communicate because when I looked at a driver being late, that's transportation, right? Like a driver's gonna be late, things are gonna happen. You know, there's traffic, there's X amount of factors. People outside of the industry, A, don't know, and B don't really care, right? They're paying for a service, they want the service to occur in the time that they dictated it. So that took a lot of of patience on my part trying to navigate that. But again, it's it's understanding the importance of relationships because had we not built those relationships of the carriers we worked with, I, you know, they the the three or four brokers we worked with really backpacked us to get us where we were doing, you know, what was anywhere between you know 10 to 15 final miles a day on top of airport recoveries and and all kinds of other last-minute grenades we would throw at them. So I wasn't prepared for, but we figured it out.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

So you mentioned that you you were one of the night shippers and would take brokers' calls. So would you would you mind telling me what was the best pitch you got? It was the worst. And we'll we'll throw an honorable mention in there, like a middle.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

Yeah, I honestly the best pitch I got was there was a young man that showed up to the office. Actually, him and his boss showed up to the office. It was just during COVID. I mean, I I went to the office every day during COVID, and through COVID, dude, they they showed up to the office, navigated through our office. I was one of the only people there, found me, brought me cookies, but also like they came educated. I don't know how they'd figured it out, but they knew exactly what we were doing, which uh we we're not very it wasn't a very public company in terms of we not a lot of people knew what we did and how our transportation ran. So for them to come in well versed on like, hey, I know you're running 90% straight trucks with lift gates with final mile white glove survey. And them being dialed in. Yeah, I'll listen because, you know, you even pitch that to some new guys at the at the other brokerages, and they just didn't even know how to price it. They were sitting there scratching their heads. And he goes, Hey, here's our box truck network. You know, here's, you know, at the time I didn't know about Selectus. They pitched me Selectists. They're like, hey, here's a curated box truck network of pre-vetted carriers that we've got a little more control over. And I was like, I boys, I'm sold. Like, let's see what the rates look like. Let's go, let's get some business. The worst ones, there were tons of them, right? It's it's the text messages, it's the emails, it's the it like not even trying to call. And the worst one was like, there were a few logos I'm not gonna mention, but they're pretty prevalent. I still see it now. I'd have four reps call me from the same office in one day. I'm like, I did we not talk to someone else from your office earlier? Like, this isn't gonna work out, or just like sloppy pictures, like so, like you guys do freight, right? And it's yeah, yeah, we've we've got some freight. Yes, that's correct. And it's just you can tell it's like just just sloppy coaching and surprising for me because again, you know, going through a training program at a large look of brokerage, like you know, you spent a month in the training room, you went through role-playing scenarios, like your calls were monitored. I mean, it was just I guess it was just a different error because this was, you know, you know, five years after I'd left there, but it was it was very eye-opening to see that that sloppy of a pitch would happen on there. And then there were some great in-betweens. I would say the most successful guys, and I see it a lot in agency, are the pound the pavement guys, guys that get in the car, show up to the office, come prepared, don't really care what you look like, show up in a hoodie, right? Like that doesn't bother me, but like be cordial, be friendly, and just be educated. I mean, if if you say you know my freight spend and you know what we're doing, you better know it, and then we can have a conversation. I'm fine with that.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

That reminds me of Sherman Barnes. Sherman Barnes is very much someone who will just he's just gonna show up and chat you up. But what you're talking, yeah, what you're talking about though, with the poor performance and the poor sales calls kind of bleeds into exactly why the agency model makes so much sense, right? You're you're the guys you're bringing on are not performing at that level, right? They're performing nine, ten times that level, right? When and and and so like I think I think with some of the deployment of AI, those entry-level training jobs are not gonna be there in ten years, right? And so, like, for instance, in in today's world, you know, AI is gonna make those check calls. Like it's already happening, they're deployed out there. You know, and when I was starting, you would have to work one Saturday a quarter and Saturday and Sunday, and you'd have to do that once every three months. And so, you know, you don't have to do that anymore. The babysitting is unneeded, right? They have a connected ELD that's gonna alert you if it's an at-risk shipment, right? And you're they're connected to all these other devices, and and also at the same time, the AI is gonna call and check in if it goes off-route, right? And so, like in that same vein, what in your eyes are some AI technologies that will eventually replace other parts with the supply chain?

SPEAKER_03 25:16

You know, I I'm fortunate that the team lets me sit in on a lot of tech demos we do with other companies. Uh, we've seen a few. I mean, they came back from manifest and we demoed a few different softwares, but it's wild to see how much AI has grown from, I mean, pricing. Like they're they're negotiating rates with carriers via email and doing it effectively, like better than some brokers are in some cases. Terrifying, right? Terrifying. I think the check call piece is probably the biggest one for me. I think there's a lot of merit to getting constant updates, whether it be via text, email, call, what have you, just you know, everyone wants to rely on macro point. ELD is pretty reliable, but getting that additional touch point on there and making sure the customer communication's there, because it translates over, right? They do that, AI does that check call on one side and then they flip it around and they update the customer on the other side. So, like I know, you know, it's something that that a lot of our agents that run priority freight and and overnight are interested in in the long run because a lot of these guys are splitting, you know. I've got one dude like I work with on a daily basis that they trade off nights that they're up all night because one of the customers they have runs this, runs some high-value priority freight, and they've got to update the customer all through the night, right? And they're like, it's it's one of their babies, and they've got it, so they're sitting there trading off. So when you look at the ability to take that on and not really outsource as much as have a system that goes in there and do it, and you can just manage the exception. I think that's the whole ploy behind AI. It's like you have someone to do this repetitive task, you're just managing the exception, managing the exception, managing the exception.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

Hey Sarah, he mentioned high value freight overnight. Does that ring any bells to you?

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Stop. It's it's sore more sore for you than it is for me. No, I I do not miss that. I I had a customer early on in my journey that it was high value, 250k. And part of their challenge was they had a warehouse that would only allow pickups at midnight. Couldn't do drop trailer, had to be live load. You had to have the driver basically either reset their hours and sleep there all day and just sit there and rest all day and then reset and have fresh showers and then go to pick up. And I'll never forget the point of contact is like give me your cell phone number. I'm like, what? Usually it's like usually I'm like, all right, like you're a newer, newer customer of mine. I don't just give that right out. But he's like, here's the thing if I got a call at 1 a.m. and I get woken up, you're gonna get woken up.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

So I'm like, Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Okay, fair enough. I definitely, Brent knows I definitely got my fair share of 1 a.m. phone calls, and then I would definitely be at Starbucks the next morning having two or three extra espresso shops in my coffee just to survive.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Sarah enjoys her sleep. Like uh, I wake her up every now and then, especially now after twins. Now I think she could handle it now with twins. I think after those, you know how the the 1 a.m. feedings and the 4 a.m. feedings go. I think I think yeah, we we we knocked out the entire season of shameless during that that tran that time. Hopefully, hopefully Ruby and Rose do not remember remember that that time.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

That and Bob's burgers. We really dug into Bob's Burgers during that.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Those were the two. Those were the two.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

We watched those shows during feedings.

SPEAKER_03 28:40

Yeah, no, it's in the same boat. We had our we had our second right when I was transitioning over to for out of recruiting full-time, kind of into more of an agency operations role. And and our agent success team, we I mean, I begrudgingly say even when I talk to candidates, I go, hey, we're we're available 24-7. I mean, we literally, someone is monitoring our team's chat from our team. Like if an agent has an issue or like needs a carrier vetted or needs like an insurance policy in the middle of the night. One of us, either, you know, Anne Marie, myself, Bree, or even Hunter are awake, kind of like staring at it all night. And it's joke, because sometimes we'll all jump in the chat at the same time. But again, it's like the same thing. Like everyone's had kids before, like, sleep is kind of a luxury at this point in your life. But well, I'm up anyway, so I think we'll solve a problem, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:25

What is sleep? You know, what is that?

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Well, I think the the other thing with with AI, you know, I that there's a balance. I think one other area that it's really, really useful, and I try to use it day to day, is just information gathering of me not having to manually go do it and being able to go into a program and say, hey, I need this data for this carrier or this client, like give me a summary, or to your point, especially on the sales side, hey, tell me about this customer, tell me about the shipper, right? And and it will give you that information and it allows you to work quicker. So I I think that is something AI is definitely a value add. But I think there are there are things that a lot of people assume AI are gonna take over, but I want to go back to what was your most effective sales call when you were a shipper. It was being in person. And I keep reiterating that to my team of people want to work with people.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

They do not want to work with robots. And there will be efficiencies that AI will be used for, but there's nothing like getting a knock on a door and having donuts and seeing the physical person and having that relationship. It still all goes back to that.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

I was talking to an IT developer, and the thing that's going to be crazy is when you can write a script in your own voice, and then it can make those calls and then it can cue you in when it's something when it's when a manual, like a manual intervention is needed from a human. So you got through that script and they didn't say no, okay, here in come you, and it's just a smooth transition. And so there's also fraud vectors that go along with that, right? And so me and Sarah actually have a have a password, right? And so if it, you know, you know, if we're ever talking to each other and it, you know, it's not like it's not our cell phone or something, but it says they're them, it's just like, okay, what's what's the password, right? And so like it just because it's gonna be still prevalent, right? And so like it's gonna be an easy way to trap anybody. I you know, I'm I I'm watching Sons of Anarchy right now, and I think there's still so many situations where a fake fall phone call can be made from someone's voice leads you to a location, and and you know, it could end up being something bad. And like to that degree in a transportation, you know, that someone could use AI to regenerate a bill, a bill of lading, right?

SPEAKER_03 31:49

Yeah, bill of lading. I mean, we caught one the other day that hey, shout out to shout at the highway because we had the bolts on on the outlook, but someone had spoofed another carrier's entire like logo email signature header, and I we we we stared at it for a good five minutes, and I was like, man, if if we would not have pinged this, like, yeah, we probably would have looked at the email address and caught on to it, but at first glance, like it looked 100% right as rain. Like you wouldn't have told the difference, and it's like that probably took someone 30 seconds to compile in some kind of AI generator, like it did not create a lot of effort, you know?

SPEAKER_02 32:23

Yeah. I think uh the other thing it it's getting at is it's also aging out a portion of the workforce, right? I think I think because we're talking about phone calls, and I think phone calls are kind of a way to cater some of the exiting generation. I think eventually the phones won't matter as much, right? Because I think because Gen Z is so fall reluctant that you that's gonna lead to some something other than that being able to communicate back and forth, right? And so I really truly think that phone calls are a way to cater certain portions of the industry that are eventually gonna age out. But to that degree, we are currently in a market where it's still around and you still need capacity. Do you think the current brokers who have been selling freight, you know, for the last five years in a down market are able to now transition into a carrier market?

SPEAKER_03 33:26

That's a good question. I think like here's here's my thought on it. I think guys that have been heavily reliant on RFQ and contract pricing are going to struggle in this, especially if they haven't done it in an upmarket. I think spot market guys will be a little more pliable just because if if you can play the market, you can play the ups and downs and you have the carrier relationships, it can probably be had, but I mean, it's a roller coaster right now, and you have got to be on top. I mean, I was looking at I think Craig Fuller posted it. The sonar update for flatbed rejection today was up over like 50%. I mean, that's it's madness. It's that's it's crazy. It's crazy. And then, of course, obviously, like the big thing I'm sure everyone's hearing this week is fuel. I mean, that's the conversation I hear. Buzz, that's the buzzword of the week, diesel prices, fuel, diesel prices, fuel. And then you look at that market, and you know, fuel's going. So I think spot uh anyone that's brokering spot market, I think it's it's a new land of opportunity in a new day because tender projections are up. The the the you know, tenders are falling through the routing guide to other people that probably didn't have a chance to touch this rate before. But are you prepared to get out there and negotiate with carriers that have been racing to the bottom for five years and now they see the opposite direction and they're you know, it's time for them to get a little bit back.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Yeah, I think we're we're definitely seeing similar, and and I think we we've got shippers that are really what we call in two camps right now, right? And and maybe there's a third, but really mainly two camps. One is this is winter storm, it's temporary, it'll go away. Like the effects will go away. Some are still some are still sitting in that camp, like not yet, and then there's some that are starting to make moves and understand that I think I think a lot of feedback we've gotten is they're not sure if it'll like flip-flip, but they do understand there's a correction coming. And so they they have started you see a lot of mini bids, mini bids, shipper of choice, like you're starting to hear all of that again, right? And you're also getting more people on the phone. For the solid past two to three years, you could not get certain people to even have a conversation. All right, close rate, otherwise, why are we talking? Or they just won't even entertain it, right? Or hey, everything's good, market's good, it's in my favor, you know, my my rates haven't risen, my routing diet's not falling apart. Why do we need to talk?

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Or they just bring you bring you in to price you in, price you out, right? But then they're gonna still keep 90% incumbency by using that as leverage, right? And I think I think that's the other portion to it too, is there's been so much, you mentioned Craig Fuller, aka Chicken Little. You know, that's the piece too that you know the market is changing, the market is changing, the market is changing, and so it's it's made so many people numb to it, right? And I think a lot of these shippers, you know, Phil Odil, for instance, is still getting a lot of the same rates. And he's just saying, well, you know, I don't see it. I don't feel it. And so what I think the issue is too is directly related to certain commodities that are that are highly sought after by fraudsters. And I think compliance has has also shifted that because insurance is so expensive. Insurance isn't paying, it doesn't want to pay a claim. And and so you have those two combining factors making certain commodities very difficult to haul versus when you're hauling, you know, a$30,000 worth load, you know, it's you know, you're willing to take the risk. And so, you know, Jackson, my next question for you is you know, when you're comparing carriers, does cargo come into play?

SPEAKER_03 37:34

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a great question, Brent. And you know, when we're when we're evaluating freight in general, I I happen to sit next right next to our director of compliance. So I'm kind of I'm working with him every day, and we we are participate, the agent success team does in carrier betting. Cargo value absolutely comes into it. I mean, there are certain commodities at a certain value that that we just straight up tell people like you're not taking. The risk is way too high, the value is way too high. Now, we we've partnered with some people and we're purchasing, you know, all risk riders on a lot of freight, but to your point, there's a lot of uncertainty, I think, on the shipper side now, and it's now flowing over to the brokers. A lot of people are are vetting their new carrier vendors based on well, what kind of fraud protection do you have? Like who are you using to how do you vet your carriers? How can you ensure my cargo's safe? What kind of insurance are you covering? What is your claims process like? Where those used to be kind of run-of-the-mill, hey, send me a COI with us on it, you know, send it updated. It's like, no, no, no. Fax it to me.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

Yeah, fax it to me. Send it 920 number, fax it to me, and we we got you.

SPEAKER_03 38:43

And to your point, it's like we, you know, we we vet carriers pretty high, and especially it's it's based on the cargo that's moving. Like, we've we've got a bunch of guys that move some some high value beef. Like, I didn't know there was that much money in beef. I, you know, being from Texas, I probably should have known better. But like seeing, you know,$500,000 shipments of beef go across, you know, million dollar shipments of of graphics cards for for gaming PCs, it's like, hmm, we're gonna be real uptight. Who we're putting on this, what's the relationship? Have they moved freight with us before? Do we get additional insurance on it? And and again, with with the right tools, it's as long as you have a keen eye and a thorough process, it can be done safely. But again, you always have to be on top of the latest and greatest fraud trend or whatever's going out there because you know, the bad actors are so prevalent now. And the double brokering, and you know, you you see it jokingly, like John Rogers and some other guys posted it's like MCs duct tape to the side of trucks, and it's like, oh no, like how many of these are out there? You know, shipper due diligence, you know, I just there's there's so many factors out there that you have to monitor. And again, I think that's why there's this resurgence in in companies from a W-2 perspective, wanting two things. You want really, really tenured carrier guys that have been doing this for a long time, have a deep network, and carrier compliance, right? That was never, I don't think it was ever a role that was previously like, man, that's what I really want to do, right? Like, I want to be the carrier compliance guy. Like, it's kind of a it was a grenade role for a while because it's like you're always the guy telling people no, like you can't use this, find another carrier. And now it's like they're a critical part of your infrastructure in order to keep your entire company safe. So kind of seeing that shift and and watching all that happen, and again, being so involved and getting to play in tools like highway all day long, it's just it's really cool to see the tech that's out there if you utilize it correctly.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

And I think too more conversations I've had, and a lot of times when you are using your third-party side, your brokerage side of the business, the one of the main objections you get is I only want assets. And in the past, when you have pressed on that, a lot of it was about rate and drop trailer and knowing I have the asset and I know where the truck is, everything like that. A lot of the conversations I'm having now around security because and then and then I asked them, I say, okay, understand the previous brokerage, third party. Let me ask you something. Did they tell you about their carry vetting process? Did they tell you how strict they were? Did they tell you how they prevent that from happening?

SPEAKER_02 41:25

Ooh, emotional drowning. All right.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

No, I mean, honestly, and then some of them have said no. I want to say 50-50 of the conversations I've had or no. I mean, they they really didn't lay that out for us. And so we're partnered with Go Highway too. And so we lay that out there. Hey, we have a partner, but we also have our own security team on top of that to really be partners in that and all the layers we have to that. And you walk through a shipper with that, and they're like, I I had one. I I was telling my team the other day, I had one who's like, oh, y'all actually care. Y'all actually care about who you bring into your network. Like, yeah. So it it's just it's interesting how that has turned from hey, I just I think assets are cheaper, and you know, that I can guarantee the asset, and I know where the truck is. It's now a security.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

So which influence influencers freight is getting stolen next? So Tucker Carlson had had all of his output. Shaquille O'Neal, his his stuff.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

And so like I you know Raptor, his uh ABV, ATV or whatever it is. Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:35

So who's next? You know, I almost feel like the fraudsters are doing it just to get more publicity, right? And so like I just I you know I I I struggle sometimes with with some of the laxness from the shipper end. Right? I feel like a lot of it is easy for them to say, well, I hired a service, I'm I'm I trust them, I'm done. And I and I think eventually it's gonna be really the person that's gonna be on to really help shift the industry will be the shipper. You know, by by deploying technologies like bird's eye security that has AI cameras detecting who is who is coming in and out and docking those procedures, actual ID verification, not just a security guard looking at it and then just writing down, right, running it through a database that it is actually who they say it is, right, and and and stopping it at at the shipper. You know, I think more often than not, they they think, well, I hired a service and I looked at the BOL, it's good. And and I think that's not to say they don't have enough going on. I think that's why it doesn't happen, is just it's probably due to the fact that that's another hat when they're wearing 17 other ones, like you mentioned before. Did you do anything extra when you were a shipper to verify the person who is they say they are?

SPEAKER_03 44:07

100%. You know, I I actually spent, you know, speaking of multiple hats, I mean, I would be on the I mean, I I unloaded containers. I went and loaded drivers in the morning if our warehouse staff was short. Like we kind of did a little bit of everything. But I mean, we were very we got to a point where we were using consistent drivers. If it was another driver or a different carrier outside of what we were typically using on a lane, our guys on the Docker actually, I gotta give them a lot of credit. They were very hip to like, hey, like this MC does not match the side of what's on this van or on this sprinter. Like they were a little more hip to it. We almost did get to a point to where you're saying, like, you know, you can spoof macro point pretty easily. We thought about putting air tags in our freight at a certain point and kind of monitoring it on our own. We we looked at a couple different ways. I mean, broken seals, you know, our guys were good about being on ELDs for the most part, and we we we did ask the our providers. I mean, we were we wanted tracking updates every hour, so we can we expected consistent tracking updates throughout the night. And if it deviated from time or route, like we wanted to know about it. And we wanted to know, like I would get calls all through the night about hey, this, you know, this driver's tracking two hours off, or hey, he's taking a completely different route now. But to your point, like some shippers are really good about it, some have 10,000 things going on. They're gonna load the truck, they're gonna sign the paperwork, they're gonna push it off the door. And then you have other, you know, we we have customers, we have thankfully have a customer-facing portal, you know, that we know I I can think of three customers right off the top of my head that like they watch macro point like a hawk. Like, if there's a deviation on macro point, like there's 30 emails, like, hey, uh, what's going on here? Why is the driver stopped? What's going on? And then we have some that'll use macro point, they'll look at ELDs and they'll use four kites. I mean, it there's some wild stuff out there in terms of uh tracking and tracing and the security. And then I actually demoed, I think it was three or four months ago. I know you've seen it before. You know, first time I've actually seen a live demo of gin logs and like what a crazy piece of like spy technology there. Like that was he was like, Oh, we we tagged this license plate at this checkpoint, at this checkpoint. I just it's wild, it's wild what's out there, but I think it's a it's it's probably a cost thing too. Like, I I you know, from thinking about days to shipper side, it all comes down to your bottom dollar, and it's like, can we get away with this and be okay without having to implement these extra systems or extra security? And I think it's one of those things where you know, fool me once, okay, like the accidents happen. At a certain point, all shippers are gonna have to get a little more keen to it, especially with the high value stuff, just because it seems like where I mean, you and I remember if a truckload got stolen, it used to be because the truck was physically stolen at like gunpoint or something.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

Direct theft, like direct theft.

SPEAKER_03 46:53

And now it's like spoof BOLs. I mean, you you live in it every day, but it's just such a different world now to what people were used to when it comes to theft and fraud.

SPEAKER_00 47:02

Or it was like an inside job. I feel like that was the other accusation that was happening back then of like, well, like we verified all this, like, oh, this was an inside job. Yeah, somebody told them like swear the tracker was in the pallets, like something like that. And it's changed so much. But I think the other thing that I think shippers and brokerages are keeping an eye on right now is the case of the Supreme Court with CH Robinson. Now that's that's more around safety and liability there, but I think that will be an indicator on you know, how is the administration gonna act going forward on that with transportation? And then also how are shippers and brokerages gonna react? Because then at that point, it just becomes a tug of war of who owes the liability or how it's it's more like hot potato.

SPEAKER_02 47:49

And I also think who who owns setting the minimum requirements because the government has already given you the most minimal of requirements. They don't even check to make sure that mail was delivered when they're issuing the MC number. Right. And so like anything the government comes in to weigh in on you know market and qualifications is laughable at best. I mean, they they inspect less than 10% of the entire carrier market. You know, if you you know, mo everybody's mostly unrated. You know, you get lucky if you have a satisfactory rating. And so to to assume that that governing body could come in and and and then say a broker made a bad choice, I think it's then on our Department of Transportation to step in and say, okay, this is how you should have vetted them. And I think that will open way too many cans of worms. And that's why I ultimately think that you know they're gonna rule on the side of C. H. Robinson because their inaction has led to it. Right? I and I think that's gonna be the major piece is the DOT and the FMCSA have both been in complicit of just being lax on their laurels. And I and it comes down to transportation being grandpa's business, you know, it's been the it's been the last adopter of most technologies, and then COVID hit. Like you said, Jackson, COVID hit and then it changed everything.

SPEAKER_03 49:18

Blew the doors off of everything.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

Because I can't get my toilet paper, right? And and and then when people had, you know, squirrely, squirrely rear ends, it it changed a lot of things, right?

SPEAKER_03 49:29

I need this, and I need I need but I need I need it by the pallet, and I need it in my house, and I need it.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

And because I need that, there's MCs that are oh, it's a home address or it's a PO box, and there's a lot of that out there too. So it's it's just crazy.

SPEAKER_03 49:47

I don't know if it's highway that posted it or freight caviar, but that was probably the my eye-opening poll because you know the some of the polls out there are just fun, but that one was like, how many power units or MCs have not been inspected? And I I was like, what, maybe like 60, okay, maybe 70%. When I saw it was 90%, I was just like bad. I was like, there's no way, right? There's no possible way that 90% of the on-road vehicles have gone without inspection. That was that was seriously an eye eye-opening stat for me. I had no idea.

SPEAKER_02 50:16

I was actually talking to a state trooper recently about inspections specifically, right? Because as in a carrier advocate within highway, one of the biggest things I hear all the time is that come give me an inspection. I'll take an inspection right now. And they're just an owner operator, they don't usually get inspections, right? The infrastructure is typically the issue because in order to to actually conduct a thorough inspection, right, you need a lot of room. Right? And you think of the choke points within 35 here in Texas, he says, I'm not gonna give the actual states, I don't want to give anybody some free reign here, but there is a 20-mile stretch on 35 where they just won't even pull over the truck to do the inspection. I mean, they've got to be doing something really, really wrong for them to do it because there's just zero room to conduct a safe inspection. And so it you know, infrastructure i I think is one piece of it as well. But at the same time, I think the infrastructure will also be the downfall of some of these trucking companies because autonomous vehicles like Aurora, Kodiak, Auto, I think it's Autobot. I was talking to those guys today. They are actually running successful full autonomous runs from Houston to San Antonio and Houston to Dallas that you know eventually the infrastructure becomes so good that'll actually limit the amount of people able to haul middle mile. Right? I've heard it compared to as an inland railroad, like an excuse me, no, an on-road railroad, right? Because eventually that that middle mile is gonna be moved on a truck, but not a driver. So that's another thing that AI is rapidly taking away from us. But in like we'll we'll we'll end with two more questions, right? And I'll let Sarah ask one. It can be a fun one, but my one is this in your crystal ball, what do you see in Q3 and Q4 for the market?

SPEAKER_03 52:21

I with with everything that's going on between tender rejection already being where it is, you know, no idea what's gonna happen with with all the current events in the world and what fuel's gonna do. And but with the reversal of the tariffs and lots of freight moving stateside, I think we keep heading up because I think I would be shocked if this is not the biggest retail season in the past five years. I think you know, people were a lot of large shippers were holding off on moving freight, tariffs this, tariffs that. Okay, those get repealed. Now, you know, I was talking to my my buddies that still work on the steamship line side of things, saying boats are moving, boats are moving full, we're already kind of hitting critical mass. And the other thing that we see every single day, you pull up LinkedIn, someone's talking about another trucking company going out of business, drivers leaving the market, capacity's only getting tighter. And so you I think we really are looking at a perfect storm where we the market will probably overcorrect before it settles down. I mean, I think definitely the big factor is we're gonna get closer to summer, you know, building seasons picking up already, industrial supplies are moving, retail season hits, and that will be the true litmus of how high can this market go.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

I think road check is gonna be like a powder keg. Especially when when what they're focusing on is ELD compliance and I forget the other thing, but like both of those things roll into all this execution of this, the laws that are on the books and that are being tightened up. I think that's gonna be the powder keg, to be honest. People are gonna freak out. But you know, with all of this going on, you know, we love to have some fun here, like Brent said on the podcast. So a couple of fun questions. First one, so we we know you as an outlet for you. You like to remodel, re work on cars. So curious, what are you working on right now?

SPEAKER_03 54:20

So we just finished up a 1973 Land Rover Series 3. It's kind of a passion project we found out of Florida. We literally, you know, we use transportation. I had one of my agents book two two 26-foot box trucks. We literally, we literally bought this thing, frame off the guy had palletized it. It was a dead project. We built that in six months. It's it's a fun little it took I actually took the girls out in it the other day, so that's been a fun car. We just 76 Bronco came in the other day. We're kind of toying with that. We may take it on as a project, we may not. I moved one of my BMWs onto the lift the other day. That's kind of been a project that I've literally owned since I worked at Schneider 10 years ago and like slowly stuff got done, and then I had to get, you know, continue to work and then have kids. So I'm hoping to tackle that this year. And then we we are kind of looking for a milestone project. I've I've been really I've always been captivated by mid-70s Porsches. That's really something I want to do. That's another one just like the freight market, those keep going up. And then, you know, we've always had a soft spot for fastback Mustangs. We've built a couple of those now, and I think we'll probably do another one this year. We've we've kind of got a frame we found. And then I've got a personally just picked up a uh 73 F-100. Yeah. So that'll be a focus on those this year. I've really been trying to, you know, focus on work-life balance and get out there. And and the girls actually like to come out and help sometimes. So it's something we can do as the family. They'll they'll either, you know, they'll they'll bang the hammer on the broken car or whatever, or go work in the garden or something on the side. So we've we've really enjoyed that. And again, it's it's a nice stress relief, and it's it's what we why we moved is be closer to family and be able to do stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 56:00

So do you still have the Audi? Do you still have Justin Rizzoli?

SPEAKER_03 56:05

Do you still have the Audi? No, that car still exists. Actually, I sold it three no, it's probably longer than that. I probably sold that car six years ago to the mechanic that did the engine work on it when I originally built it, and he actually has fully gutted it. And it is a it participates in a spec race series, and it is actually, I've got photos of it actually in my office of it running on Circuit of America's in Austin. That is awesome. And it is my my biggest regret, but yeah, the car still exists, it's not green anymore, but it still exists.

SPEAKER_02 56:41

Ah that Hunter Green came back, came back around. It's like a popular car now. It's like it's one of the major options they still offer now.

SPEAKER_03 56:49

Maybe paint the BMW that color still. We'll see. We'll see.

SPEAKER_02 56:51

I I love the Hunter Green color, it is it is so popular now.

SPEAKER_00 56:56

Speaking of green, St. Patrick's Day is coming up. So, what do you do to celebrate?

SPEAKER_03 57:02

So, we don't live in Dallas anymore. So, normally I would just tell you we'll get a babysitter and go to Greenville athletes.

unknown 57:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:11

Charleston's kind of quaint, like there's little activities all all over the place. We'll probably go. The downtown has a cool little part of the main drag that they kind of block off on weekends anyway. So we'll honestly, they always good about family, more family-oriented activities. So we'll probably take the girls out there, dress them up in green. I'm sure my wife has some kind of smock outfit for both of them that they'll be in before it's all said and done. So, and then maybe maybe a couple of Guinnesses here and there. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 57:40

I I always that's my one thing, no matter how busy it is or anything like that. Because I mean, my maiden name's McGann and my mom's main name's O'Brien. So it's like, shoot, I mean, I can't do nothing. So gotta have a Guinness. So it's either on draft, find it on giraffe somewhere or get it from the grocery store and have it at home. But that's that's the little little thing I do.

SPEAKER_02 58:04

Yeah, I can't pinch her because her blood's essentially green. So, you know, there's not much I can do there. You know, she's she's born next to the Blarney stone, all right? And so aye, it does, it does. Well, hopefully recorded this time, Jackson. No promises to everyone here. I'm happy to do it again. Thanks, thanks again for joining us. Again, if uh if if anyone wants a transcript from the first episode, please just let me know. I'll gladly send it to you. I'm still very much so embarrassed. It is what it is. Well, we got some learning, and then we have a great guest in Jackson who graciously came back on. Thank you for taking time away from you and your family again. We appreciate your support here, and we look forward to seeing all the things Freight Flex does and and also your upcoming car projects. We'd love to see pictures.

SPEAKER_03 58:53

Absolutely, man. Well, I appreciate y'all having me on and always happy to be a supporter of old friends trying to do things like this. And it's I mean, you can even see from the response from the post. I mean, people love it and love what y'all do, so I'm happy to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_02 59:05

Yeah, I may still uh the graphic from the LinkedIn post you did about uh the the freight draft, that might be our our our the it might be the it might be the logo for this one, Jackson. So I think that's what we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_03 59:17

All right. Sounds great. All right, man. Have a wonderful evening.

SPEAKER_02 59:19

You too appreciate you. Later, man.