Between2Tittles
Brent and Sarah sit down with a guest between to discuss freight and fun!
Between2Tittles
Inside A Shipper’s Mind: Trust, Fraud, And The Future Of Freight feat Phil Whittle
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What really changes when a top-performing broker becomes the shipper on the other side of the table? We sit down with our friend Phil Whittle to talk through the hard truths he discovered in his first months as a transportation manager: where pricing breaks under pressure, how to spot the difference between a trustworthy partner and a smooth talker, and why auditing invoices after a disaster-level reroute can save thousands. Phil walks us through a wildfire-driven shift in Colorado that exposed deadhead assumptions and forced tough conversations with brokers who insisted on contract rates that no longer fit reality.
We also get candid about freight fraud—spoofed emails, fake shippers and carriers, quick-pay bait, and the playbook Phil uses to slow down the scam without slowing down the business. From there we zoom out to market signals: historic carrier bankruptcies, shaky consumer confidence, and a Q1 outlook that rewards relationship stability over hero rates. Phil’s take is clear—costs will move, nobody has the crystal ball, and the right hedge is reliable capacity and honest communication when the board turns.
Beyond freight, Phil shares why he considers debt “modern-day slavery,” how becoming debt-free reshaped his decisions, and what behavior science says about spending more with plastic. He gives grounded advice for new grads entering logistics—success favors those willing to have difficult conversations—and explains how jiu-jitsu sharpened his calm under pressure. From mentors who modeled people-first leadership to parenting stories that redefine chaos, this conversation blends real-world logistics strategy with personal systems that work when things get messy.
If you enjoy smart, unfiltered insights on logistics, fraud prevention, market dynamics, and practical personal finance—with a few laughs along the way—hit play, then leave a review, share with a friend in freight, and subscribe so you never miss an episode.
Recording Started
SPEAKER_01Episode two of Between Two Tittles starring a close friend, Phil Whittle, who has 20 years of logistics experience and has recently transitioned to the chipper side. Um you're here with me and my wife, Sarah Tittle. I'm Brent Tittle, and Phil is now between two Tittles. Phil, welcome to the podcast. Do you want to do a brief intro of yourself and biography before we begin?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for for sure. Thank you guys for having me. I really appreciate it. Um, I started with uh Schneider National in the brokerage division in 2006, and I was in that role up until February of this year, and it's at that point that I transitioned to the shipper side of things. Very cool.
SPEAKER_01Sarah, there's some rules to go along with this podcast episode specifically. Would you like to go over them?
SPEAKER_03There are. So uh we do listen to our followers. Thank you so much for all the feedback and the love from the first episode. So we did have a mutual friend of all of ours that is a follower of the podcast, Tommy Clark. Shout out to you. Thank you for providing suggestions. So there are a few key phrases that we all know Phil by. And so if he does speak one of those, we are me and Brent are gonna take a drink of a lovely beverage we have chosen for this podcast. So um, again, Phil, really appreciate you coming on. But um I know you probably watched the first one, so you kind of know I'm the question master, so to say. I cut a joke and we'll kind of get the conversation going. So you mentioned your previous background, and so we we first wanted to ask you what are what are the rules, Sarah?
SPEAKER_01So before we roll in, what are the what are the what did Tommy suggest here?
SPEAKER_03Oh, the specific rules. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_03So one drink for every listen. One drink for every here's the thing. And uh if you talk about Dave Ramsey, Brent and I have to finish our drink.
SPEAKER_00Okay, we'll see if there's any loaded questions there, but I'm gonna I'm gonna rock with it. Let's go.
SPEAKER_01There might there might be a few.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Fair enough. Well, now that we have gone over the specific rules from one of our followers, we'll we'll start with the first question. So you mentioned your your previous background, so you were in that side of the business for a while in the supply chain and logistics. How has your transitioning from the carrier side, the brokerage side to the shipper side uh really changed your perspective and your perspective of brokers in particular?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um so I I have a lot that I can say about this. Feel free to butt in and cut me off if you need to. I remember, and I've said this for years, I never think it's the broker that someone's working with. I always feel like it's the person at that broker that they're working with. Um, while there's some differentiators, a lot of them have the same resources. And, you know, you you have to like who you're working with and know that you can trust them. When I came into this role and I initially met with all of the brokers uh we were currently doing business with, um, I explained to them in detail my history and my experience. But here's what else I told them. I said, when I was in your chair, there is nothing that I hated more than when a new transportation manager would come in and give me the boot and bring in everyone he knows. So I'm like, if you're here, you're here, but it's your job to keep the chair, you know, working with us. And I can honestly say within the first two, maybe three months of this role, I felt like that little old lady you would cold call who picks up the phone and she's like, We don't work with brokers. I literally found myself getting getting angry because I saw some of the shadiest things that I have ever seen. Uh, some of them in my career, and that was that was within the first three months. So I think there's absolutely great Can you elaborate a little bit on the shadiest things?
SPEAKER_01Just you don't have to name names or anything, but can you can you give us a an idea of what what you're talking about?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I'll get I'll give you an example. Um, some of it's a little long to get into, but here's just a quick, a quick uh summary of something that happened. Um we have a lot of package freight that comes out of central Colorado. This year, over the summer, there was a massive wildfire in Colorado um that was kind of tearing through the state. Uh, because of that, drivers could not access our location in Colorado to get loaded. So we had to divert those drivers to Denver in order to be loaded. Me already being on the brokerage side of things, I knew what was gonna happen. And where I'm going at with this is there is published pricing in place, and all of these sales reps built orders. And um, after the fact, the location was changed on them. So I know that you're going into whatever TMS you work in and you're changing it to the new shipping location. So I had a feeling that some of the published pricing would still reflect the same as though it was coming from our location, whereas most of the trucks are sourced from Denver, anyways, with a four-hour deadhead. So I spot checked every single invoice um on the loads that were shifted to Denver, and I reached out to all the providers that still had the same pricing as though there was four hours of deadhead both ways. And a couple of them told me um what I expected. They're like, Hey, I'm sorry, these loads were built. We shifted them in our system, not intentional. Here's your updated rate, we're fixing the pricing. I had multiple brokers tell me, Well, look, man, this is our contracted rate on this lane. And I would go back and I'm gonna be like, Hey, but but listen, like when you give us that rate, you're factoring in four hours deadhead that way and four hours deadhead back. And did you just drink? You drive. When you said listen, yeah. I missed it. So yeah, have a drink. So I told them, I'm like, this pricing doesn't make sense. And even though they knew my experience, they would continue to lie to me about everything. Hey, you know, even though the carriers aren't driving out there, you know, we're still having to pay them the same, you know, stuff like this until I would, you know, push really hard, and then they would lower the pricing. Um, and honestly, I've experienced things even more way higher on the shady scale than that. Um, I have an email chain with a very prominent broker based out of Chicago. Um, the email chain goes on, it's it's a mile long, but ultimately um they lied to me. And I knew they lied to me. So I asked another question, they lied to me again, asked them another question, they lied to me again, and I just let the lies pile up, right? And I let them pile up and pile up and pile up, and we are talking about a lot of of money here, and um, I dropped the bomb on them and I essentially called them out on everything, everything that they were doing from what they were lying on to how they were procuring capacity, everything. And what I thought was interesting is the sales manager dug his hills in for a couple weeks, um, even trying to intimidate me a little bit, which I I thought was weird. And simultaneously, the sales rep sends me an email on the side with no one else in it, admits everything, comes clean, says why goes rogue on their manager, gotta love it. Yeah, she told me why she felt justified in doing everything that she did, how wrong she knows that it was, and you know, that she just wants the opportunity for her to show me the saleswoman she can be. So it's uh you know, and it's just endless situations like that over and over and over that I find myself in. And the thing that caught me the most off guard is I was extremely transparent about my experience sitting on their side of the desk, and I still have to this day, people try to lie to me. Like I don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Ultimately, all I want is someone I can have transparent conversation with, right? And I'm gonna get good communication from. I want everyone that we partner with to make money because if they're not making money, they're they're not gonna work with us, right? But that doesn't mean that that can't come with transparent and honest conversation.
SPEAKER_01What has been your best sales pitch so far? And then in tandem, what has been your worst sales pitch so far?
SPEAKER_03I I also want to throw a third in there. I want to throw also like an honorable mention in there of like, eh, it's not my best, it's not my worst, a for effort, you know, sort of thing. Like you knew something about my company, or like you tried, but eh, it's not the best of her, but it's not the worst I've heard, or either. So three three categories best, honorable mention, like eh, and then worst.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I would say honorable mention. I'm gonna start there, I'm gonna forget about the guy. Um he tried, I could tell he tried to research our company before he reached out to me. Um, and he was very adamant that he knew a lot about our network and where we were shipping from and where we were shipping to, but um half of the locations were wrong. So I was like, okay, it was well-structured email, it was a good sales pitch, but it's like, come on, dude. Like, no.
SPEAKER_03Do you think it was AI? You say well structured. Do you think it was AI?
SPEAKER_00No, it wasn't AI. I typically you can kind of tell when it's AI, people get a little happy with the M dashes and things like that. This, this, this was not this was not AI. This was a guy that came across as extremely confident and polished, but didn't know the information that that he thought he knew. Um, I I would say some of you know, probably one of the best sales pitches that I've got is someone who did know our information. Um, and not only did they know our information, but they shipped from our vendors. And to be honest, I still wasn't really in a position where I was looking to add someone, but you know, the guy was extremely professional, which I liked. Um, you know, he came across as extremely honest, and I would get constant communication and updates from him. Um, they never felt pushy, they were subtle, but they were like, hey, I just want to give you visibility to everything that we did out of your vendors this last week. You know, and and he would send me the load list, he would take out the relevant information, but you know, he would give me real insight into like, hey, this is why and how I can provide value. I'm familiar with the rules, I'm familiar with how it works. And I mean, ultimately, I work with that, I work with that gentleman now. So um he's he was probably he was probably my favorite. And as far as getting my attention, he hit he hit the nail on the head. Um, I would say as far as bad, there there has really been a lot of bad ones. Um, I would say 95% of them are are bad. Um a lot of it's like, hey, what truckload or LTL do you have going on right now? Let me quote it. Um, but I you know, I don't have the best example because I just don't have a lot of time for the bad ones. I get so much correspondence from brokers and carriers. If I engaged with everyone that reached out, that's literally all I would do all day long.
SPEAKER_03How much do you think between phone and email? I'm just curious, just for our listeners, we I think we tell we we've been in the industry a while and we we kind of have a rough estimate of like shippers kind of tell us, hey, we get X amount of calls or X amount of emails a day. What what do you get, Phil? I'm just curious.
SPEAKER_00I probably got three calls on my phone today. Um, I would say I get more emails than anything else, and the emails don't just go to me. Um, I also get emails forwarded from sales guys, um, emails forwarded from other people in the company. So, you know, there's a lot of people that are procuring the information from, you know, who knows where? Um, some of the email addresses they're sending them to are people that don't even work here anymore.
SPEAKER_01So they go into your Gmail domain account, or they go into your company domain, or where where are a lot of these falling to?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they come to my company domain and they come and I get it direct to my cell phone.
SPEAKER_01You've gotten calls on your cell phones. How do you how do you feel about that when it comes directly to your cell phone?
SPEAKER_00No, I I mean honestly, uh I'm not opposed to it. I started cold calling people on their cell phones. I would say it was right around COVID. Um, something switched there where it felt more acceptable. Um, it's probably because everyone was remote and that's how they were communicating. Also, is it was around that time, maybe a little after, that Schneider rolled out the opportunity for their sellers to subscribe to Zoom Info, which essentially just scrapes um scrapes the emails for the signatures. And a lot of people had their cell phones in their signatures. So, you know, when I was prospecting, the cell phone was one of the main points of contact I would get. Um, so probably around 21-22, I started doing it all the time. So I don't I don't think anything of it. And if I am gonna talk to someone, I would prefer it'd be on my cell phone anyways.
SPEAKER_03And I remember that. Like I was still on the sales side at that point, and a lot of companies did they weren't prepared structurally, IT-wise for COVID. It it just so you'd call an office phone and you get nothing. And so you, you know, you're in sales, you told it to be creative. Okay, think outside the box. How are you gonna get their attention? And that's just where it turned to. And that's what you had to do to get somebody's attention because the first thing is okay, can I get them by email? Okay, they're getting flooded with email because they can't get them on the office phone. Okay, now you gotta go outside of that and you gotta find their cell phone number and see if you can get them to talk to you on that. It was, I remember those times, it was crazy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was uh easy adjustment for me because I started working from home full-time in 2015-2016. So when the big panic happened and everyone went home, I was like, Well, this is just you know another day in the office for me. Um, but I do recall the VPNs being a huge issue when you talk about them from an IT standpoint not being prepared for that because it was one day my manager came up to me um out of the blue, and they're like, Hey, we're all going home and we're staying home effective immediately. And I was like, Okay.
SPEAKER_01Was this before or after you built a sauna in your house? Was this was this around the same time? You've got to get a little sweat in every now and then, too, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the sauna went in in 2016.
SPEAKER_01All right, when you had to sweat it out a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So so now you have new providers, we're upcoming on a new year. What are your thoughts of what's coming in the freight market and what are some of these brokers signaling to you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so this the signals have changed um throughout the year. There's obviously been a big push around all the CDL issues and drivers coming out of the marketplace. One thing that's been in the back of my mind um is the bankruptcies. Um, I remember, I believe it was Q4 of 2023. More carriers went out of business that quarter than any other quarter in recorded history. Then you follow up in 2024 with I believe like 6,000 carriers a month going out of business. Um when COVID happened, um, you know, the the rates went through the roof. And and when you see that, that's typically see that's typically when you see carriers trying to buy more equipment. The problem is everything during COVID, you couldn't even get a used car. So they're fighting over equipment um that is at an absolute premium, and you know, uh the market crashed within a few months. So, you know, I imagine some people probably made a mistake in the equipment they purchased. Um, you know, some companies weren't necessarily run very efficiently, efficiently, and they've they've kind of been weedied out, but I've had more concerns around the bankruptcies and carriers going out of business than I have around the the CDL issue. Um, because when you look at the number of drivers coming off the road versus the number of carriers leaving the marketplace, um that's a little bit that's a little bit scarier to me, you know.
SPEAKER_01Is theft and fraud ever on your mind when you're working with some of these brokers?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I actually had a um I had a broker stop a fraud issue. It was either this morning or or yesterday, but the fraud stuff has been getting out of hand for a minute. Um it may have been freight waves, but I was reading something on LinkedIn last week where the shipper was fake and the carrier was fake. They had spoofed a legitimate shipper's email address, and you know, you have some new inside sales rep who thinks he's closing a new customer, and the criminal is sending him the load, and then as soon as it's posted, the criminal is calling them, offering them a low price so that they get the load, and they're like, Hey, you got quick pay, right? Quick pay setup. Oh, the load picked up great, the driver was great. And the broker realized something was wrong and requested that the driver go back to the shipper, which there was no driver, there was no shipper. Um, they had talked to the shipper, and they're like, We don't know what any of this is. So it's it's really it's really getting um it's getting wild um out there.
SPEAKER_03Well, it's funny you say that because I know something we've been seeing is the the initial approach was on the carrier side. Because I feel like a lot of bad actors felt like that was the more vulnerable side of the industry with emails, phone numbers, whatever it is. But with shippers, now with onboarding things like that, you're having to take an extra layer. Because let's say the financial information they send you doesn't match their company address or whatever it is. Okay, red flag. That then that could be that situation. So I know there's a lot of brokerages that are on the alert for the carrier side and now the shipper side. And in a time where it's hard for the carrier community, brokerage community to get business, you want to have the ease of doing business, but you got to protect yourself at the same time. So it's really like that balance of okay, how can you communicate that with the customer without being like, okay, you're too hard to work with with all these hurdles, I gotta jump through, you know, I'm not gonna work with you, sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Um, I'm sure it's gonna, I'm sure it's going to um continue to develop. I feel like the initial focus was on the extremely high value freight. Um, but I am starting to see the games pop up um across the board. And you know, I don't know if anyone um anyone is immune to it.
SPEAKER_01So your thoughts on next year's freight market. I'm not gonna ask you for either having budget increases or decreases, but are are are you you're you're saying you're not gonna see a major change, you're saying it's gonna be flat next year. What are your thoughts there?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um I stay as up to date on the market as I can. I feel like what we've seen the last couple of weeks, and I imagine next week is gonna be a rough week as well, is kind of reminiscent of what we saw in December of uh 24. Um, but I don't feel that consumer confidence is that high. I don't feel like people are spending money the way that they're spending money. And yes, the stock market is doing well or has done well this year. I'm I'm not necessarily convinced the economy is doing as good as everyone thinks. Um I think if you see a big spike in consumer confidence and people are spending more money, um, yeah, that could absolutely turn everything into the carrier's favor pretty rapidly. Um, but until I see a change there, I feel like it's gonna stay relatively flat. Um some people are saying, hey, by next summer. Some people are like, hey, through the end of next year. Um, I I could be wrong, but I I feel like it's gonna be soft, at least going into the first one or two quarters of the year. Um, and uh some of my carriers agree with me, and I can tell that by the pricing that's been submitted for Q1. Um, some of them don't as well. So we're gonna we're gonna have to see how it plays out, but the truth of the matter is um nobody really knows. Everyone's throwing spaghetti at the wall, and whatever piece of spaghetti sticks, they're gonna be like, look, I told you. So we'll um we'll see what happens and how it plays out.
SPEAKER_01So you're saying it's gonna be on the supply side if there's gonna be any kind of effect in the market, you don't see anything in the demand side really going to be moving it that way.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no, no, no, no. I I really don't. And uh, you know, what most shippers are concerned about is like another 2021, right? So in my perfect world, I would start to see the prices gradually increase now. Um, I and that's that's a lot easier to manage than hey, I need 15,000 to go from California to Jersey.
SPEAKER_03Like what happened is like, okay, took a huge dip, and then everybody built up their inventories, and they were like, oh crap, I've got too much on my dock. It's costing me a lot of money. Now I gotta pay to get it off my dock. And it's just this huge whiplash effect that happened. I remember talking to a lot of shippers, and that was their biggest issue out of COVID. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but no, that's okay.
SPEAKER_00Reminded me of that. Well, you know, and I've had some carriers tell me, like, look, you're gonna be paying more and all this kind of stuff. And I'm like, okay, that's fine.
SPEAKER_03Like which crystal ball you look at it right now, because everybody's looking at a different one the past two, three years.
SPEAKER_00Even if they're correct, I even if they're correct, I don't care. Like, because if the freight market changes and the cost of transportation goes up, we're not at some competitive disadvantage, you know what I mean, with our competitors. It it goes up for everyone, it's still an equal playing field. What I care about is I have good partners, reliable people, and the resources to get my get my freight moved. That that's what's important. So I'm um cost is always gonna be a factor for everyone, but when it comes to what the cost is gonna be and how's the market gonna change, um, it's it's gonna be what it's gonna be. I can't control it, the carriers can't control it, but I can control making sure that I have the pieces in place so that my freight is executed on.
SPEAKER_03Well, and I know that you mentioned what's important to you. Um, can you kind of tell our viewers with 5.2? So what what you all do, what uh why you consider that and your decision-making things like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, so we act as a the sales and marketing arm. We partner with uh chemical suppliers all over the globe. Um, and we assist them in bringing their their product to market. Um, a lot of times once it once it hits the United States, um, I'm running with it at that point, you know, one way or the other. So, you know, not only do we have a responsibility to our customer base, but we also have a responsibility to the suppliers that we that we partner with. And, you know, managing the logistics and all of that, um, it's it's extremely important.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I appreciate that insight. Um, you know, you hear all this, and I know a lot of us who've been in the industry or in management roles are like, oh, we need we need to bring the new minds into the industry, things of that nature. So if I was a student with a logistics degree or a supply chain degree, and I'm like, I'm gonna come into logistics, like what would your best advice to them be? Coming into this crazy time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, this this is not the easiest time um for them to come in, but if they were coming in at this time, I would probably give them my Amazon speech, which some people have heard before. Um, but it's like imagine you order something on Amazon and you get the notification, hey, it's 10 stops away. And then you check your app, you're like, hey, it's five stops away. And then you look at the app again and it's two stops away. But Amazon sends you a notification that says, we're gonna need an extra$25 or we're not going to deliver it. That would upset a lot of people because the way our minds work, um, the typical transaction is I give you money and you give me the product. And unfortunately, that is not the way the transportation works. That's the way it's worked the last couple of years, but that's not the way it historically works, right? So, what I would tell someone new is that their success will be defined by how many difficult conversations they're willing to have.
SPEAKER_01When did you know you made it in the industry?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, so it was 2008, and Schneider tried to do honestly what I believe was its first collaboration between asset and brokerage, and that account was Dollar General, and they asked me to work with the Schneider Sales Rep at the time to see if I could get anything going for the account. Um, it took me a good three years to get it up and going, but I can honestly say uh Dollar General uh taught me transportation, it taught me how to navigate through a company, it taught me the politics, um, it taught me how to ask for money. It it gave me my footing closing that account with the with the Schneider sales rep. Um, it gave me my footing. And ultimately, due due to multiple issues, which are really irrelevant, I had to make the choice to give up that account. Um, there was no set account management at Schneider at the time, and the workload became so big, I I couldn't do anything else. And I remember thinking when I parted ways with that account, um, I don't think I will ever make as much money here in this role as I did with that account in my book of business. And um, I don't think I realized how much I learned working with them, and I was incredibly wrong. Um, in fact, I made a lot more money without that account than I ever did with it. So it was funny to see it play out, but when I felt like I made it is when I felt like I actually understood transportation, I could get on the phone with someone, um, and I was comfortable with the lingo with everything and uh the exposure to Dollar General um back in 2008 through 2011 actually gave me gave me that.
SPEAKER_01Who are some of your mentors?
SPEAKER_00So when it comes to like just straight up sales, hustling, closing the business, I don't feel like I I really had one that just came to mind, but I absolutely had mentors, and you know, I would say one of my favorite ones is Billy Bass. Um, and you know what's so special about Billy Bass is I don't even think he knew he was a mentor, and I don't even think I knew that he was a mentor at the time, but what I learned through working with him and watching him is how to deal with people, um, because people are going to let you down, things are not going to go how you want, and everyone thinks that you can have this military hierarchy where you run things with an iron fist and you're gonna get the appropriate response out of people, and and you're really not. Um, that doesn't work, as a matter of fact, people tend to resent you a little bit when you lead that way. Um, and I find myself to this day um managing situations where someone may fall short or where I want to see a change in the behavior um the same way that I saw Billy manage it. And I would argue Billy has always been better with people than I have, so I don't think there's anything wrong in in mimicking that behavior, you know. Another person, um it's a high stress job. Um, you know, when I was in the office and I was stressed out, a lot of people knew it.
SPEAKER_03But I would have to I right Tittle knew when I was stressed, and then he would bring that and say, Hey, Phil was stress, I needed to cover his spray, and then he would bring it to me. So yeah, I heard about it too.
SPEAKER_00Guard the mountain. So it's um king of the mountain. That's right. That's right. Um but you know, for a while, Adam McGill was one of my leaders, and you know, the one thing I can say that I pulled from him is um you have to have fun with it. Um, I think part of me uh took things that I couldn't control a little bit too seriously. Um, and if if I'm just gonna be short and to the point, um, you know, Adam taught me to chill out, laugh at things, not take it so serious. You you can't control, you can't control everything. And um, you know, him and Billy both being my leaders in the past, um, I definitely see that in myself now.
SPEAKER_01One thing I want to say about Billy before I I know there's there's multiple comments here. Um when I was doing stand-up comedy, Billy came to every one of my shows, and I wasn't even reporting to him. Um he invested into people, right? It wasn't just a nine to five to Billy, it was hey, I I'm in your corner in whatever that you're doing. And so that was another thing that really helped helped me too. Um Billy also uh was there when me and uh Sarah were chatting back and forth when we were dating, and he he got a major kick out of that. Um, but uh no, I I I can't speak highly enough of Billy as well. Adam is Adam as well. But Sarah, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.
SPEAKER_03I I should have known when you were about to propose to me too, because Billy and others would come up to you and be like, hey, get a propose. Get a propose, things like that. And he just was so interested in his people that the one time him and you didn't approach me, Phil, or approach Brent, I was like, that should have been a signal, right? Um, but what I was gonna say was Billy and and I really tell a lot of these individuals that want to come up in leadership, as I've gone up in leadership, it's if you change leaders, I changed leaders in my first role, I think it was five times in two years that I changed teams. And a lot of people think of that as negative of like I can't keep a steady leader, like it can't get a connection, things like that. But for me, what I realized eventually is that you learn a little bit, something from every leader, and you figure out how that works in your leadership style. I had Billy who was great with people, I had individuals who are great on the customer experience commercial side, I had individuals who were good at the data side that taught me a lot. And so, what is it that you can learn from every leader and what can you implement? What can you bring into your style? Um, but before we we brought up Billy, I thought about you actually, Phil. And the reason because I don't think you remember this. So I was a brand new sales rep. And you remember how they would bring in the newbies with y'all to listen in on your calls?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And you and they would tag up to your phone line and the headset, and they would just listen to you make cold calls. And I was really intimidated at first. I was like, oh my gosh, Phil's like the best performing guy in here. Like, I'm gonna look like so ridiculous compared to him. And you were making cold calls.
SPEAKER_01Your eyes were at his standing desk where the desk started.
SPEAKER_03No, he was sitting at a time, and or they gave me one of the raised chairs because I'm so short, um, for his raised desk, either way. But you you started cold calling and you had somebody just straight up hang up on you. And I was like, you know what that made me learn is even the best are gonna get hung up on, they're gonna get objections, not always gonna get through it smoothly. And I was like, okay, that's what I learned from that experience. But you were actually my first sit-in, but that I don't think you remember that.
SPEAKER_00Uh-oh. No, but uh you're you are absolutely correct. Everyone gets hung up on, everyone gets yelled at. And what's funny is I have seen highly intelligent people with master's degrees and all that kind of stuff sit in a cubicle across from me and fell. And I have seen some of the dumbest people I have ever met in my life make a lot of money doing this just because they will hustle. You find a smart person that's willing to hustle, that's a dangerous person.
SPEAKER_02A hundred percent. No, a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_01So I I have to interject, and I'm gonna change topics here just a little bit. Um, so you've been missing golf a lot lately, right? You've had a lot going on in your new role. Um, but in tandem with that, you recently got your purple belt in September in jujitsu. So I I would like you to share when you had made the decision to begin learning jujitsu.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, so I was doing I was working the parking lot at my church one Sunday. I've always carried, you know, CDL. I most of the time I have a gun on me. And I was doing the parking lot at church, and um I'll just say a really sketch person came up to me. Um, couldn't really get him to go away. And it was getting to the point that I felt like things were escalating, and I was a little uncomfortable. And I remember thinking about the gun on my hip, right? Which is natural for someone that carries and you feel like something's gonna escalate and it's a weird person. And I was driving home and I was thinking to myself, I was like, gosh, you know what? If I'm carrying a gun and something starts to escalate, if the first thing I think about is the gun on my hip, am I really being a responsible gun owner? Like, is that supposed to be the first line of defense is your gun that you could kill someone with? So what I started doing, I went to a combatives facility in Richardson and I did close quarter combatives, you know, hands, knees, elbows, knives, all that kind of fun stuff. Um, I did it for a little over a year, but while I was there, I, you know, once you start getting into a martial art or fighting or or whatever it may be, you start getting on YouTube and you're watching a lot of things. And one thing I noticed when I came across the impromptu street fights, um, a lot of them wind up on the ground. And I remember thinking, I'm like, man, I I don't even have a ground game. I don't like what if it goes to the ground, what what am I gonna do? And I wanted to try jujitsu, I really did. And you would think after already doing the combatives and everything, I wouldn't be nervous about it. But for some reason, I was nervous about it. And I never went into a jiu-jitsu studio, but it was always in the back of my mind, like, you're gonna try this, you're gonna you're gonna try jujitsu. Well, what happened was um I wanted to get my oldest kid into a martial art. Um, I just want to get him doing something, and I put him in a karate place by our house. And I'm like, let's give it a year and and see how it goes. And um it was Shotokan karate, which uh probably doesn't mean anything to a lot of people, but it's basically an expensive dance class. It's more caught, it's it's it's more kata based. Like they're they're they're not really interpretive or not ballet.
SPEAKER_03I mean what type of dance are we talking?
SPEAKER_00Yeah they're in a gi dancing around but what happened while we were there is um a guy came into the studio one night and he wanted to talk to the parents and this guy's like hey I'm a purple belt I'm friends with the owner of the of the karate place and he goes I want to get a jiu jitsu program going here for beginners would any of you parents be interested and I was like okay well if this didn't assign I I don't know what is right so I immediately signed up it was not formal training there was no structured curriculum it was once a week maybe sometimes if I was lucky twice a week he would have a class he would bring in a couple students from the place that you know he trained at and they would beat up on me pretty good um but right around that time um one of the most uh considered one of the best grapplers ever out of Europe moved to Plano Texas and opened a jiu-jitsu gym right by my house so I decided um once I knew that I liked it uh I'm like okay if if you're gonna move forward with this like you you need the structure so that's when I went to Progresso Jiu Jitsu and Plano um and I've been training under Alexander Trans and Davy Cabral um basically since day one I put my youngest in there immediately um he's eight now he started training when he was three and a half um and I pulled my oldest out of karate and I I put him in there as well um and it it's been extremely rewarding it has absolutely been one of the harder things and more humbling things that I've I have ever done I would argue that the average person has no idea how helpless they are none um and you know I walk in there and you know I'm 6'4250 like I I'm a big dude and I'm just getting pieced up by these 135 pound you know someone that you would pass by on the street and and you wouldn't even think anything wouldn't think anything of and um you know when I started I was I was around 38 and you know I hear a lot of people be like man I wish I would have found this earlier I wish I'd have discovered it earlier started earlier whatever everyone's always like man I'd be so far ahead but you know the the truth of the matter for me is when I started was perfect because I wanted something to do with my boys that would be a common bond as as they get older. You know what I mean? And it's it is you can roll safely and it's similar to the golf it's similar to golf in the fact that you can do this well into your your 70s you know and I wanted to I wanted to have that you know I wanted to have something like that with my boys. And I feel like if I had started earlier and we weren't doing it as a family um I I probably would have quit because I was absolutely that first year or two was absolutely miserable. But I've grown a lot um you know I I've compete fairly often um I travel to compete as well I've gone to Vegas the last couple years to uh compete in the largest ghee tournament in the world um so active in local tournaments active in the IBJJF um it is absolutely a part of our daily routine in our daily lives and um I don't know if there's a time that especially my youngest kid would ever even remember not doing it. But you you know you're putting yourself in situations where people are choking you or they can snap a limb or you know whatever that may be and you're trusting these people that when you tap or say stop they're they're gonna stop you know and um everyone treats each other with that mutual respect and I feel like you get a closer bond with people than you get in some other traditional sports just due to the proximity and you know you're you're trusting them with your health so um it's it's been very rewarding I wouldn't trade it for anything it was a long ride to purple belt um but I'm happy I'm here and I'm gonna keep on rolling has that mindset impacted any of your business like when you think about the freight market and working as a shipper working as a broker how did that impact you on that side of your life yeah it it definitely helps um build resilience in people um I I don't even think that's that's debatable um and there's kind of like what Sarah was talking about earlier when she was like you know the hangups and and things like that in jiu-jitsu you tap a lot and you lose a lot and everyone wants to leave their ego at the door but even if you act like you do that that ego is still there and I I just kind of really helps you from an objection standpoint or a complex standpoint you know it's a very technical sport um there's very specific technique that that you can use in certain situations and sometimes you have to think your way out of out of certain situations. And then the the third thing I'll bring up is it helps keep it helps you stay calm. What I've realized is when you have confrontation with someone um and then it doesn't have to be extremely heated you know a lot of times you'll get the elevated heart rate right you'll you'll start breathing a little bit harder um you feel anxious and and things like that. And when you constantly put yourself in those situations and you're competing and doing all those kind of things I I don't ever really get the same response that I had before I was in martial arts. Like if if someone came at me in aggressive tone in in the past if I'm in a convenience store I I could I can remember like you could feel your adrenaline go up you know you could feel your heart rate go up and I find myself being extremely calm even in difficult situations and difficult interactions with people. And I've uh that's probably one of the biggest things that I've noticed and it's actually pretty pretty interesting.
SPEAKER_01So you and Mike Wilkes from Mercer might have convinced me to finally go and enroll my I you know I had I have a weight loss goal in mind before I get there because I don't want to be so massive and hurt somebody um I also like my claim is that growing up I had a six foot eight brother who you know taught me how to defend myself because he put me in those positions frequently but uh I think that's probably the most interesting piece to me is like the calming sense like being a bit being away be able to put away that red mist and being able to to think in stressful situations I think that's something that can really help all aspects of your life.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah yeah well I I hope you make the choice to do it and my offer still stands if you do let me know where and when and I'll come join you for your first class and uh you know we'll we'll we'll get rocking you want to you want to you want to put me in a real naked chokehold just like Justin asked for Justin Rosoli.
SPEAKER_03Yeah that's that sounds about right I do want to humble you yeah that's what I'll gonna say is like I'm gonna beg and I don't want to hurt somebody like I I want to see somebody humble him. Sorry that's just me Sarah's Sarah's in she's in you got you you talked about like seeing that person that's like 135 pounds versus like you on the street like I want to see that happen to him.
SPEAKER_00So he he realizes he's not as tough as he thinks he is you you can't judge what I one of the other things is taught me you can't judge anyone by how they look and we'll have a lot of people come into our gym from out of town there was a girl that was in the UFC that used to train with us and um one day that girl in the UFC came and she brought some people with her and I I didn't know who these people were but there was a guy and I remember sizing him up um I was probably still a white belt maybe I just got my blue belt at the time look at this dude this this is whatever and I went with him and this man could have ripped me limb from limb it got so bad he started coaching me through the role but I'm like this guy is ridiculous. So the re the reason I'm telling y'all this story I looked at him and he just looked like a regular dude to me well I started asking around I'm like who is that like this guy just tore me up who is it and I find out um it's uh it's a guy named Charles Byrd who was like a UFC heavyweight he just looks like a normal so it's like that that's what's funny too like in these gyms there's there's always that mutual respect that I like to compare to the Wild West where everyone had a gun you know what I mean it's like when you're in that environment everyone is extremely respectful because everyone there is capable and it's like I'm looking at a guy and I think nothing and then I'm at home two hours later Googling a UFC heavyweight and I'm like what did I just roll with so it's um it's interesting well and during this journey you mentioned your boys a lot and so Brett and I were curious what is your craziest parenting story with those two oh my gosh well you know I got two boys there's tons of fights tons of nosebleeds we you know we work on it the brotherly things here's the craziest story um this one has always stuck in my mind and I'll try to clean it up for the podcast as as much as possible but um we were potty training my oldest son and I don't know how old he was he might have been three i he was young but but we were potty training him and I had ordered um uh what are those boxes where they mail you all the ingredients and then they tell you how to make the meal like a meal prep yeah yeah that sort of like a like a home chef or yeah yeah blue apron sorted blue apron that yeah that's what it was I had tried blue apron and I had this big kit come and it was like this fish dish and all this kind of stuff and and I was gonna make it and it came and I was excited about it and you know I'm opening the kit I'm like all right let's get to cooking and my wife is like hey I gotta run some errands like you know I'm gonna I'm gonna leave you home with with Paul and just keep an eye on him and remember we're potty training him I didn't think about Paul again for how long was she gonna leave you alone I don't know how long she was gone this I mean this we're going on like seven years ago maybe six but probably seven years ago but what happened is I'm sitting here you know trying to make this this fish dish and I turn around and Paul is just urinating all over the kitchen floor through his underwear right and I was like oh my gosh I I can't believe this is happening and he's just looking at me by the fridge in a puddle I'm like well I got him and cleaned up I'm like okay this is just gonna take a minute and I didn't turn off the stove right so because it was fit so I'm like let me pick him up and change him and then I'll get the mess cleaned up and I'll so I take him back to his room and I'm taking I'm trying to take off his dirty underwear and I pick him up you know like like this like around his torso where his butt's in the air and I'm pulling his underwear off and he begins to projectiled defecate all over the wall all over his curtains all over his room right and I'm like I I don't even I don't even know what I don't even know what to do.
SPEAKER_03So my wife comes home the kitchen floor is covered in pea his entire bedroom curtains everything is covered in that I'm trying to give him a bath the blue apron dish is burned and ruined and I just oh man that was uh you want to talk about a stressful day that was a stressful day you need a jujitsu you need a jujitsu on that day right you need a jiu jitsu I will say probably the funniest recent one for us so our girls were turned well turned for it four days all right and Brent he had stayed home with the girls and he had taken out he had taken them to the zoo he had taken them to the trampoline park he had taken them to their favorite restaurant Maria Cuca's like they loved hip salta in case they were in tortillas whatever and I was working that day and he calls me on the way home and I'm about an hour like my drive one way is usually about 45 minutes to an hour. So I'm about like 20 minutes away and he called me he said hey like his thing is icy every Sarah can you give me a coke icy like been a long day whatever there's a 7 Eleven around the corner whatever I thought man this is going great even that person in front of me bought the icy like the the guy at the cashier he's like oh it's only two bugs okay just go just go I was like all right thanks man and then I get home and the way our house is structured you come in through the garage and the girl the girls' rooms you see them immediately when you come in and when I came in and I heard them happily screaming I'm like oh they're in the playroom they're in their playroom playing look to my right and I look in the door and they're not there lights on toys are scattered they're not there but then I look down and I see water all over the floor and I start to walk and dad was just trying to take a 10 minute girl break and the girls decided they wanted to give their stuff toys a bath in their bathroom not in the bathtub they they decided they wanted to do in the sink dunk them in the sink and then put them on the bathroom floor and just let the water keep flowing and they were soaking wet and the whole bathroom was covered in water and they're like what are y'all doing and dad's trying to take a break in the other room he's like I thought they were in their playroom they had flooded the bathroom it had flowed out near the kitchen toward the garage and we were mopping it up and I was like what do y'all do?
SPEAKER_01Well we're just playing it it was a little easier to clean up than your mess though I think uh I don't know if I want to I told you it wasn't as good I just thought you but it's not as good as that a painting uh you know your your son gave your your nursery a good painting well good once over oh what do they call it where it's the splatter painting uh Jackson Pollock yes it gave me a Jackson Pollock on your dirt oh gross we're getting close to uh the end of the podcast and I and I had one more question before we kind of get into a couple more fun ones but uh uh you might you might carry on with this one what are your thoughts on debt okay um a lot of people think that I have a weird perspective on this and you know I I fully understand why but um I view debt is modern day slavery um and I don't partake in it and to be honest if I was the president and um I could do whatever I wanted I feel like the first thing I would do would be to destroy the credit reporting agencies.
SPEAKER_00I think it's a joke I think it's a scam and I don't think that your financial livelihood should be tied to how much money you have borrowed and paid back plus interest. I don't like the way the system is set up I don't like anything about it. And I became fully debt free in it's either 2016 or 2017 um and I've I've never looked back don't even own a credit card um haven't haven't needed to do it uh how it all started was remember when I told y'all back in the Dollar General days and like hey I'm I'm learning the business I started making really good money um you know what what a lot of people would consider good money and I was kind of like okay this is good but I'm like I I don't know how to manage this so I started looking for something and get your drinks ready I was looking at Susie Orman uh looked into Dave Ramsey yeah I I looked into a lot of things and he did it and ultimately what I settled on keep drinking was Dave Ramsey. Um the reason I did that is because it was the uh it seemed like the simplest most straight to the point concept you gotta finish it Brett we'll we'll finish it in a second I'm from listening to the story here and and I was like you know I I can I can make this work so um me and my wife got on got on the plan um I still remember calling to cancel uh my credit card um that I had and the lady's like I want to say the card at the time had like a thirty thousand dollar limit or something like that and I was just like I I I don't need it I'm done I'm done so um financially I've I've built my life totally different since I went that route in 2013 um I will say um just to be fair to everyone I know that some people aren't the biggest Dave Ramsey fans and and I understand why and there are some things with the program that looking back now I wish I would have done differently I find myself listening when I'm uh listening to finances I'm kind of in my Caleb Hammer error I really like his sense of humor and the way he does it um but yeah I mean the those are my views on debt and a lot of people think I'm crazy for that but I Don't really care because there are no wolves knocking on my door.
SPEAKER_01So do you like the biblical aspect of what Dave Ramsey brings? Do you think do you think that helps his program? Do you think being grounded in your faith helps as well?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it it is rooted. I mean, it is uh he uses a lot of biblical concepts, but the thing about the biblical concepts is it's just like common sense. Like, hey, if you don't have the money, don't do it. And you know, I remember when I started making a lot of money, I was just driving uh Ford Explorer, and there were people in the office at Schneider that made fun of me about that. They're like, what you're making all this money and you're just driving a Ford Explorer, like that's that's what you're doing. And I I you know, I was on a plan.
SPEAKER_01And the thing you don't anymore, you don't anymore. Man, that new car you have is the profit that has the old car.
SPEAKER_03I think Warren Buffett just has like the the car like that. And I just remember reading that and I was thinking, like, that makes sense. I Brett knows I put it.
SPEAKER_01Bill doesn't have the explorer anymore, Sarah. He he he has something a little nicer nowadays. That thing I think is a tank.
SPEAKER_00I I have I have absolutely um upgraded. Um you know, I've uh it's it's been a blessing, but I I think I made the right choice. When I look back on um my experience with Dave Ramsey up into the point when I started to when I was debt-free. Um, I think if I managed things a little bit different and deviated from his plan a little bit, I would probably be a little further ahead than I am now. Um but you know, I I wouldn't have been managing for risk had I had I done that. And um I can honestly say I have no regrets and I learned a lot from it. Um people it's just that people think the the no debt thing is is weird, but I you know, I end up saving a lot of money anyways. Um when you're paying cash, you can get a lot of discounts, you can get deals done faster. Uh when I bought my wife her last car, you know, we I'm like they're like, How are you how are you gonna pay? And I was like, You can I can do duffel bag or personal check. What would you like? You know?
SPEAKER_03And that's yeah, people think that's inconceivable though. Like I feel like people think, well, you know, I have this credit card, or like the way things are these days, it's you know, inflation, whatever you want to call it, the economy. It's like, is that inconceivable or is it one decision at a time?
SPEAKER_00A hundred bucks a month. A hundred bucks a month invested at about a 12% return, um, I believe it's over 40 years, is 1.1 million dollars. You live in the most prosperous country, in the most prosperous time in the history of the world. And um, there are people that are not going to like me saying this, but if you do not retire a millionaire, it it is your fault. It doesn't take much money, it takes what you're spending on Starbucks. Now, where people are at a disadvantage is not that they don't have the money or a little bit of resources to get it going, it's that they don't know how to do it and they don't know where to put it. And um I would say, like, as I've gone through my journey, that's one of the ways that I've tried to get back to people. Um, when people there are many times in that Schneider meeting room that I was there after work with someone, building them out of budget, helping them. I remember you talking about it on the floor with people.
SPEAKER_03I I remember hearing you doing that after hours.
SPEAKER_00There are people today that I actively manage their vanguard accounts for them now, just to just to help them. Um, there are people that um I will make investment recommendations to to this day now, or I will do it for them. So anytime someone has asked me for help in that space, be it build a budget, get on a plan, help me invest, um, I love doing it. I I absolutely love doing it. And I um I wouldn't turn down the opportunity to help someone if if they wanted the help. But I I've noticed that's where most people are at. The disadvantage is um they don't they don't know what to do, but you can come up with 50 to 100 bucks a month.
SPEAKER_01So you don't think you should you should take out a an installment plan for door dashing McDonald's? You you you're heavily you're staunchly against that?
SPEAKER_00I was just waiting for that to happen on Caleb Hammer where it was Clarna debt. Um no, I I think it's I think it's absolute, it's absolutely it's absolutely ridiculous. Um, yeah, there are some people that can use revolving debt as a as a lever or tool or whatever you want to call it. But the studies that I've looked into says um when you're spending cash or the money's coming directly out of your bank account, it activates the pain sensors in your brain. The money is gone immediately. You're not just swiping something, and it's like, hey, I'll come back to it later. And what they say is even the people that pay their credit cards off every single month, you on average spend 18% more when you're swiping a card than than when you're not just freely swiping a card. So um, you know, I just it it kind of feels like playing with fire to me, and I'm not interested in doing it, and most people don't understand, and that's okay.
SPEAKER_01Don't share this too much, it'll hurt my brother's business, the bankruptcy attorney, okay? Like he he's counting on people not having a big thing.
SPEAKER_03Another tittle. Can't hurt another tittle here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I can't can't hurt another tittle. So in the theme of Christmas, I've got a Christmas question, and then Sarah has one as well. So we have a running total. Is Die Hard a Christmas movie?
SPEAKER_03Come on, Phil, give me the right answer.
SPEAKER_00There, listen, this this one's I don't have any more drink.
SPEAKER_01I can't well, we owe you a sip.
SPEAKER_00Okay, it's okay. It's it's difficult. I understand the arguments on both sides, but due to setting, I have to say yes. I'm sorry, the elevator opens and the guy's sitting there in the Santa hat. No one wants to watch that in July. Listen, you take, I feel like the setting is more important than the story when it comes to is it a Christmas movie?
SPEAKER_03If you open the door, you open Pandora's box if that's your category. If that's your qualifier, Phil.
SPEAKER_00No, listen, you could take four Christmas events.
SPEAKER_03Harry Potter, you you can in Pandora's box there, man.
SPEAKER_01The whole movie is Christmas this year. The whole the whole movie is during Christmas. It's a Christmas party.
SPEAKER_03It's a Christmas party. Is what he said. Well, I'm just saying it's the main box opens there. Come on now.
SPEAKER_00No, it's it's the it's it has to be the main setting. Okay, take four Christmases. That's not the main setting, but take four Christmases. Great movie, amazing movie.
SPEAKER_03It's about Christmas Day.
SPEAKER_00And it could, that's my point. Thank you. It could be about Thanksgiving Day, and they would never miss a beat. It's a Christmas movie because the Christmas theme is all around you. You take the movie to Sandlot, and they're out there.
SPEAKER_03There's presents on Christmas Day before Christmases. There's even a scene where uh Vin Spawn's going to his family, it's like, oh, I didn't know the budget. And the kid gets a flashlight. It's like, Santa was cheap on me this year. Christmas. That's not Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_01What were the names? It was Orlando. Well, come on, help me out.
SPEAKER_03His name is Orlando.
SPEAKER_01Oh, so good.
SPEAKER_00It was an amazing movie. Listen, Sarah.
SPEAKER_03Come on, Phil.
SPEAKER_00Listen, I love you. I respect your opinion, but no one agrees with you.
SPEAKER_01So a lot of people agree with me. What is the next question, Sarah? What's the next question?
SPEAKER_03So, what does the Christmas season mean to you?
SPEAKER_00Um, well, I mean, it's a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. I mean, that's literally what it is, Christ's Mass. Um, so uh, you know, that's that's what it means to me. Um, you know, that's what's told in my household. Um, you know, we we also do all the other fun stuff as well, but that is absolutely what it what it is.
SPEAKER_03We always ask our girls, what is the reason for the season? Baby Jesus.
SPEAKER_01I don't think we have any more questions. We actually uh got through our allotted time, but uh, I'm pretty sure you'll probably be back for another episode soon. Uh, and hopefully we get around a golfing at some point and you can beat me again. I I will I will beat you at one point, but probably not wrestling in jujitsu. You probably you probably get me the first few times until I kind of just learn to stand up with you kind of grappling me.
SPEAKER_03Maybe a little more than a few.
SPEAKER_01Sarah.
SPEAKER_00Well, listen, the golf could go either way. That was so close that uh we're on the same level.
SPEAKER_01So we'll just I've I've improved greatly. I just want that stated there. I've I've spent a decent amount of time golfing, so I need to learn jujitsu now.
SPEAKER_00So you let me know when you're ready.
SPEAKER_01Sounds good.
SPEAKER_00Cool, cool.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think that's uh concludes this episode. We really appreciate you joining us. Uh like I said, you were you were the one that took the first call when I had a fall off for a portapot company in Sparta, Wisconsin for three three truckloads to pick up. Uh my really heavy fat butt was at Wendy's getting lunch, and you took the call and you said, Hey man, there listen, there's a guy here asking where his truckloads are of Porta John's, and I had to tell him they weren't coming. And you go, you gotta learn the first thing in logistics is to is to play hot potato with your issues. They just get worse if you avoid them. And honestly, that piece of advice has stuck with me forever. I coached it today when in issue resolution and operations, and so it that rings true today, is just issues get worse the longer you don't approach them. And so thank you for teaching me that lesson.
SPEAKER_03And well, and I want to thank you also. I mentioned this to Brent probably about a week ago. Uh you probably had one of the best hosts at our at our wedding. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We we had people who were struggling before that, and then Phil comes up and brings it home.
SPEAKER_01So we want to show appreciation for that. And I got the I got the chat when you showed up that day because he knew I liked redheads. You go, Did you see that copper top come in today?
SPEAKER_00So Yeah, that was that was fun. I'm happy y'all invited me. I'm happy I was uh able to um be there for y'all and to give a speech. I really enjoyed it. And y'all are one of the few, if not the only Schneider weddings that I was invited to partake in. So it meant a lot to me too, and I wanted to make sure I made the most of it while I was there. So thank y'all.
SPEAKER_01Pleasure was ours. All ours. Awesome.
SPEAKER_03There. Well, thank you, Phil. We really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, it's good to see both of you. Thank you so much for having me on. I I appreciate it as well.
SPEAKER_01Let's do this again sometimes. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03All right, bye.