Between2Tittles
Brent and Sarah sit down with a guest between to discuss freight and fun!
Between2Tittles
Freight, Family, And Finding Your Lane featuring Sherman Barnes
Freight doesn’t just shape careers; it shapes character. We sit down with a 20-year logistician who went from forklifts to brokerage to leading teams, and he brings the receipts: why hiring for grit beats hiring for polish, how personal non-negotiables create better business decisions, and what it takes to build trust that outlasts a cycle. The conversation moves from origin stories to high-stakes realities—market enforcement against chameleon carriers and non-domiciled CDL abuse, how “riding dirty” distorted pricing, and why safety and legality must be table stakes.
We dig into the freight recession with clear-eyed honesty. Enforcement can clean up the board, but demand still decides direction. Instead of waiting for a turn, we lay out executable plays: pivot to project freight, flatbed and heavy haul, and the booming data center supply chain—racks, cooling, specialized equipment—where budgets hold and expertise wins. On the relationship side, we get specific about defending incumbency: walk the floor, fix exceptions fast, and tell shippers something about their network they don’t know. That’s how you stay sticky when voicemails pile up every three minutes.
Fraud and safety get a sober treatment. ELD tampering, identity spoofing, and AI voice scams demand layered verification, trained teams, and callbacks to known-good contacts. Protect the road, protect the brand. For new talent, the roadmap is simple and demanding: ask more questions, take meticulous notes, immerse yourself in trade media, and give the craft enough time for the game to slow down. We close on community and gratitude—Rotary, family, faith—and the reminder that in a small industry, reputation compounds like interest. Subscribe, share with a teammate who needs a reset, and drop a comment: what niche are you betting on next?
Hopefully no no technical difficulties as we go forward, but uh we'll figure it out. Obviously, the first one.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's all good, bro. It's all good, man. We're family. We're family.
SPEAKER_02:So cool, cool. Well uh we'll go ahead and get started. So welcome to the first episode of Between Two Tittles. Um with myself, Brent Tittle, my wife, co-host, Sarah Tittle, and we're joined today by Sherman Barnes, a 20-year logistician, and he's a master at all that it comes to it. Um and I'm gonna, Sherman, I'm gonna give you a little chance here to intro yourself and give a little bit of your background before we begin.
SPEAKER_00:Uh first of all, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. It's an honor being your first guest. Number one, number two, I love your the name between two titles. I'm just really curious how you all came up with that name. That's pretty, pretty cool. Sarah, you're you're you're creative. So I'm assuming you came up with it, but maybe, maybe. Oh, Brent. Okay, nice, nice. But uh, but no, so uh been in the industry for 20 years. Um I've known um um the titles for several years um when I was um with Schneider National, but uh before that I've worked at uh C.H. Robinson company, um I've worked at UPS, uh, been in Motor Express. So uh I've been around the block a few times for the past 20 years and still in the business and still enjoying it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we came up with it, uh not to steal too much from Zach Alfinakis, but I always loved watching his between two ferns. How could we make a podcast? And then I just thought of our last name and all the uh things that you can allude to with it, right? And so a tittle actually means the dot over the eye. So if you look at our logo, it has two dots over the eye, so it's two tittles, and so that's the literal meaning, but everyone can think what they like. Uh it's obviously a guess between us two, so that's great. But uh that's kind of how I came up with the name. And Sarah, Sarah, you know, took a little bit, but we came to the came to an agreement here. Uh, and so uh it was it was a good name.
SPEAKER_03:We juggled a few names. I, you know, I was kind of leaning toward tittle talks, but you know, I like between between two tittles is growing on me, you know. So I I went with the more creative of the the tittle duo. So I I went with his good judgment there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I like it. I love it. I love it.
unknown:Well, cool.
SPEAKER_02:We're gonna we're gonna roll into some questions here for you, and then uh we're gonna obviously talk about the market and some of the recent developments here, especially with the last two days. Uh the leaked memo, obviously, I don't know if you've seen that yet, talking about cracking down a chameleon carriers. We'll get to that a little later. Um, but Sarah, why don't you launch us off?
SPEAKER_03:Perfect. Um, so I got I guess first question being for you, Sherman. I I always like to phrase it two ways when I ask people this is uh, how did you choose the transportation industry or how did it choose you?
SPEAKER_00:So it chose me, like most of us. Um you don't plan on really getting into it. So going back a little bit, my dad was a shipping and receiving supervisor uh my entire life growing up. Uh he worked for like Levi Strauss, uh a company called My Nat Yates, which I don't even know if it's still a business. He worked at um Yellow Roadway at the time, uh YRC for bid too. So I always was in and out of docks and whatnot. You know, my parents would run me, you know, my mom would run me by the say drop dance lunch off or something like that. Um and while I was in college, uh I actually ended up working during the summers um, you know, with my dad, um loading trucks, driving to forklift, picking orders, um, you know, unloading the trucks the whole nine. So I still at the time didn't want to get in transportation. Um, but true story, I just I moved to, you know, when I graduated college, I moved to Atlanta. Um my best friend, um, I'm from Mississippi. Uh best friend from Mississippi had moved to Atlanta already. And um, he had an apartment with another roommate, so I couldn't stay there long term, but he said, hey, you know, you can sleep on my couch, uh, but I'll give you a, you know, a couple of months or whatever to get going if you pay us a third of the rent. And the first job, I had interviews set up, but I did not have a job. And one of the first job interviews I had was with C. H. Robinson, and that's who hired me first. That's the that's the I had 350 bucks and my best friend said I could sleep with his couch. And the first people that said yes was C. H. Robinson. So um serendipity, I guess.
SPEAKER_02:We I feel like we all join this industry hungry. I think that's what I think we all kind of join it hungry. Do you think uh having kind of that hands-on experience in the beginning really helped you kind of your career flourish and get a real respect for kind of being hands-on in the beginning of the process?
SPEAKER_00:Um at the time, I would have said no because it was completely different. Like, you know, as C.H. Robinson, you're just, you know, two phones, uh two screens, you know, you just hammer it out. I didn't really see it at the time, but I did know some of the basic lingo. Um, you know, I had loaded trucks before, unloaded them. So I, you know, I understood what we were shipping. Um, so that was a little bit interesting, but so so I I had a little bit of the lingo, but one thing that I will say, the recruiter that recruited me when I first was interviewing SCH, and she was trying to explain it. She called it like a stock brokerage. She said, Do you have you ever seen movies like Wall Street or whatever? And I was like, sure. And she said, Well, yeah, it's a bunch of deaths, and it's people yelling a little bit. I mean, not maybe as much, but they're yelling, and hey, I got to order here, whatever. She mentioned it like stock brokerage, and I was like, Oh, that's interesting. It's freight brokerage. And I felt that was a really good way to outline what it was. So when I came in, you know, that was completely different than working in a warehouse. So so I'll say yes, but but not not, it didn't give me a huge edge. Uh it's nothing like throwing in, and when you get in there and it's loud. And at the time, you know, when I started, this was 2005. So, you know, the level uh of profanity was extremities level higher than probably it is now, um, and a lot of stuff that happened. But uh, but you know, I wouldn't change it for anything. Um, and it was it was a great experience, a great training ground because it's really like a sink or swim, live or die situation. And if you make it, fine. If you don't, hey, you know, you're a cool guy, that's great, but sorry, you know, this didn't work out. And um, and I and I was able to thrive in that environment. And before that, I didn't know that I could.
SPEAKER_02:All the Chicago guys I know always reminded uh reminded me in Oceai that it reminded them of Boiler Room. I don't know if you've ever seen that movie before. Of course, of course. Oh yes, oh yeah. That's kind of like what my first taste was as well. It's kind of like, you know, you you've gotta you've gotta sell and you've gotta be right on top of it and you've got to be moving with your metrics on the phone, right? And if you're if you're not really picking up the phone and making a difference, you know, they're gonna find out real quick.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's really funny where you talked about where you started in the industry because I graduated UNT with an operation supply chain management degree, and I thought I was gonna start in the warehouse. And so you talk about the industry twos and you, and thankfully I was really lucky at UNT, our career center. They had a full week of interviews where they would bring employers in and students could sign up for however many interviews they wanted. And I had a couple of callbacks that would have been in that industry. And I think the closest I would have been in a warehouse or it was a supply chain leadership program. And I was like, oh, that sounds really good. That'll get me out, you know, on the right foot and everything like that. But then they said, Oh, but you have to move into the middle of Kansas, it's a rotational program. You're gonna be there for about six months, then you could go anywhere in the country. And I was like, I don't know about that. And so it ended up that, you know, I wanted to stay around my family who is around in Dallas. And so I ended up in logistics sales and I haven't left. So it's just funny how you say that of, you know, it's not what I was expecting, and not necessarily the experience or education you had necessarily prepared you for that. Because a lot of people, when I came into that new higher class, they heard my degree because everybody knows in logistics if you've been in it long enough. Those degrees can be anywhere from arts to finance to you know diversified studies. And then they looked at me and they're like, Oh, you know everything. I'm like, no, y'all don't realize like maybe base. I know what an LTL is.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I know the basics, so it's just really funny how you say that.
SPEAKER_02:I feel like once once you know about pallets, you'll always know about pallets, and you're always gonna be talking about it like the freight life chose you. Like as soon as you get into it, you're never out of it, right? I think everything just pulls us into it.
SPEAKER_00:And big shout out to UNT too, the supply chain uh program that they have. Brian's doing great work over there, man. Um big shout out to it. This is a great program. And those things weren't really around in 05 when I started. Um, supply chain and trend, like it wasn't people like, what do you do again? Uh, we were married 10 years before my wife could like fully articulate, you know, what I do, you know, what I do for a living. Um, so I'm just so glad to see so many young people and so much attention being brought to supply chain. Um, so again, just wanted to give a shout out to that to that UNT crew. They're doing a great job of it.
SPEAKER_03:Number four on the Gartner, on the Gartner ranking, still trying to hit those hogs.
SPEAKER_00:It's amazing.
SPEAKER_03:Still trying to hit those hogs.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Well, awesome. Um, so I guess my my next question for you, Sherman, is throughout your career, what has been the most defining moment for you?
SPEAKER_00:Hmm. The most defining. Um for me, becoming I can go early career, I can go later career. My first thought is later career. When I started leading people, I didn't know that I'm good at choosing talent. Um I didn't, and and one of the most rewarding is hiring people and then seeing them grow and develop and go on to become leaders themselves. So some people have climbed the corporate ladder even higher than I did. Um and that doesn't make me mad, that makes me proud, you know, um, because I just am able to identify like good people that are talented. And so so what am I, you know, what am I looking for? Like I'm looking for the drive, I'm looking for people with initiative, uh, I'm looking for people that are resourceful. Um it doesn't matter where you came from socioeconomically, but I like to see a little bit of um pain maybe in the past. You know, what what where does your drive come from? Um sometimes it's I'm proving my dad wrong. He said I couldn't do this, or you know, the teacher that said I couldn't do that, or I grew up and got bullied. Usually I can see that in a person, and I know they're gonna run through a brick wall and learn whatever they gotta learn, listen to whatever podcast they got to listen to, read whatever book, interview whoever they got to interview to get it done. And so I just kind of find people like that. And so one of the most rewarding things, again, to answer questions, um, is seeing people surpass uh uh uh what I've been able to achieve. Uh that's really, really fun.
SPEAKER_02:One thing that you did taught me, I think this was probably eight or nine years ago. Um, and it's good for everyone listening, uh, because they set their goals for next year, is writing down your five goals you want to accomplish professionally, and then five you want to accomplish personally. Personally, sure. And then that and then that one person you're gonna bring along with you. Um I look back at those note cards, and there are people that I saw get promotions from, you know, writing those names down. Who am I gonna bring along with me? And so that was a really lasting impact for myself as I kind of grew my own tree and created my own branches off my own tree. So that's something that's really stuck with me.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I know you have, man. I've seen both of you progress and you know, really excited um in this new podcast. I mean, that's that's great. It's a great idea, great name. Um, so I'm really excited for what you guys are doing.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and I think what people underestimate sometimes is how those connections keep going throughout the years. Like even when Brent made this announcement, there were there were some people that I didn't even think remembered us, or me at least. I don't think remember Brenda's a very person that is easy to remember. But even for us, it's one of those things where you see those connections and those people that you impacted or impacted you throughout the years that that still stay in touch. And even you, Sherman, like I hadn't talked to you in a little bit, but just the interest we've gotten around this is proof of how those connections last and how those branches last to y'all's point.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02:No, I was gonna say it's all it's all gratitude. I mean, honestly, for us is you see the small pond in which we work in every day, right? Everyone thinks it's you know, it's such a massive industry, but you continually see the same faces once you're really hitting, you know, the topper the upper echelons, you're really seeing the the hard workers and the same people in the same rooms a lot.
SPEAKER_00:Correct, correct, correct. 100%. And I'll uh you know, I said I'm from Mississippi, so my granddad said it a little bit different. I'm not gonna say what he said specifically, but uh, and he was a farming guy, whatever, and he said it very succinctly, and I've and I've taken it with me my whole life. He said that the face that you smack climbing up is the butt you're gonna kiss coming down. Um and so I've always I know it's a little crass, whatever, but I mean it was it was a nugget of wisdom that I took with me. And so I just always am careful to um, you know, not in the midst of achieving goals, yes, in the midst of trying to hit numbers, yes, all of those things, like to remember that, you know, at the end of the day, uh we're in a people business, and you got to make sure that you're building people up and not not tearing them down. You know, we're competing, I get it. It's competitive, and you know, I want to win as much as the next person, but I'm not willing to like do anything to win, if that makes sense. So I'm not willing to like, you know, step on somebody's throat to win. And I and I don't think it's necessary. Um I I don't I I I'm living proof of that, and there's other people I can show that it's not necessary. You don't have to blow your whole family up to be successful. You know, you can stay married. You can, whatever it is that you, whatever your core, you know, when you talk about the five uh career goals, but then the five personal goals, I think it's all kind of interrelated because you got to find out kind of what your values are. You know, so one of my values as an example, and I say it broadly, even on this podcast. So even if somebody's looking at me for a CEO or whatever they may be looking at me for, I'm not traveling every week. I'm not doing it. It's not gonna happen. Am I willing to travel a bit? Yes, you know, but I have a limit to the amount I'm gonna travel because that's gonna blow my family up, and I'm not gonna do that. There's no amount of money that's gonna, that I'm that I'm gonna do that for. So that's a non-negotiable for me. Um, it just kind of I know that personally, that regardless of what's going on in my career, like that's a non-negotiable for me, just as an example. And I and I stand by that, you know, and um, and then maybe and there's some opportunities that it's cost me, but I've got other opportunities where, okay, you know what, I respect that, you know, and we'll figure out how to work around it. Um, but that's why it's important to know your uh personal goals as well as your uh career goals and make sure they're kind of aligned.
SPEAKER_02:So we have twins, as you know, and uh God bless. I I have a I have a question. Because I mean, you have a large family and you're the biblical patriarchy. Yeah, you're the biblical patriarch, right?
SPEAKER_00:I was fruitful and multiplied.
SPEAKER_02:So for for me, it's like and I might be still in one of Sarah's questions here is does how do you think being a good father helps you be a better person in transportation and in your job and your career?
SPEAKER_00:Uh it's all, it's all, you know, another one of my adages, I'm giving you all my little adages because I I think in terms of like uh like a philosophy that I have about my life, one of them is like I'll give you an example, people over paperwork. That was the philosophy that I have. So that if I'm doing something and somebody came into my office and they really need help, I'm gonna stop what I'm doing because I'm there for the people, I'm not for the prep work. Um, but another another example is, you know, I'm always working and I'm never working. So like it's, you know, I don't know, you know, 7:30 at night on a Monday night, and my children know, hey, I have something to do, but I'm at home with them, you know, so I'm not traveling every week, I'm not doing those things. So um being a father, um, it's an initiative to push me to keep working. Um, B, when you have as many children as I have, excuse me, and you've been married as long as I have, 18 years, you learn, you can see that they're they're they're kids, but they're human beings. And human beings have, I believe, a purpose on this earth. You have an assignment, you have unique talents and gifts, and you have some challenges. You know, there are some, you know, one of my kids may be better able to pay attention. Another one may be able to zone, you know, zone in. I mean, he zones out all the time. That person may be more creative. What are the, what are the, and I hate to say positives and negatives, but what are the strengths and what are the weaknesses of each individual child? And that has allowed me to be able to see that in other people that have worked for me, that may be my peers. Um, I'm able to try to put people in the right place, and I'm very honest with where I think they should be, um, based upon the skill sets that they may have or may not have. So some people hear me out um and they're able to stay at the company. Um, and some people are like, no, like I'll give you an example, just so, you know, and I'm a talker, so you kind of gotta direct, you know, directly what you want me to say, but um, I'm gonna give you two examples. Um it'll remain nameless, but uh, you know, we don't know what a performance improvement plan is. Um, you know, where things aren't going well, and if you don't perform by certain whatever, then you know, you may lose employment, you know. Um, one gentleman, he was really technically a really good operator, but he left out of operations to come do sales. And I'm I'm I'm a sales guy through and through. I'm a talker, I'm a marketing guy, but that's who I am. You know, I don't mean any strength. I'm the guy you don't sit next to on the plane because I'm gonna know your social security number by the time we're done. You know. And I was telling him, I'm like, listen, man, I was coaching him and I could see he doesn't have a sales personality. I'm like, bro, you're a logistician, you're an ops guy. Like, I could, you, you killed it in ops, you did outstanding work, and you know, I think you should go back over there, brother. And I was like, I'm about to put you on a pill. And he was like, Well, you know, I I ain't never ran from a pill. I'm like, bro, it's it's not about like I appreciate the tenacity and I appreciate the get up and go and like I'm gonna prove you wrong. And there's a time for that. That's not right now. Like, I'm I'm I'm telling you, like, trust me, brother. Like, you're you're supposed to be doing ops. And I and I'll give you a good referral. I will give you a good referral to go back to ops. Like, you're a good guy, you're a hard worker, I know you're doing the work. It's just it's that's not who you are, and that's okay. Ended up having to let him go. I told another gentleman uh the same thing that he was now he was in sales, but it was just some things that I saw weren't gonna work out. And I was like, listen, man, I told him that's kind of the same, it was a different story, but the same situation where hey, you got a pip or whatever, you got to deal with work ethic, this just isn't the right role for you in this company. I think you should look at this, this. I you you can use me as a reference. I'm gonna hook you up. He heard me left and got a 20% raise where he went. And he's still he's still there to this day.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, don't bring a sledgehammer to do something a screwdriver could do, right? It's like you gotta be the tool, you gotta use the God gave you and be the best of your ability, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and so I just only I only bring that up to talk about again, to frame out my thinking in terms of how being a father has helped me lead well. I can see what people are good at, what they may struggle with. I can see if it's something that coaching can help with, or I can see if it's something to like do, like as an example with me, again, this may shoot me in the foot one day. I've run PLs and things, but dude, like I'm not, I'm not an ops guy. I'm a sales and marketing guy. Like, I love doing that. Um, that's fun. So I do I know how to read a PL? Absolutely. Do I know how to do all of those things? Absolutely. But if you make me try to make me the CFO of the company, I'm gonna wanna buy it. I'm gonna be bored out of my mind. It's just, it doesn't make sense for me. You know, so it's not because I'm a bad person, it's not because I'm an idiot. It's just I believe everyone has certain giftings, certain areas of interest, certain areas where they have a gifting, and which and those things are gonna be invigorating. It's gonna make you work hard. You're gonna get good results, which is gonna be kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy for you, and you're gonna go be successful. But if you put me as a CFO or or uh a CPA, anything like that, even if I was, I don't have my CPA, but even if you did, send down monotonous the numbers and the crunching, it's like above the head mustard stuff for me, man. I'm just uh it's it's gonna be too much. And so I wouldn't do that role well. I know that about myself, I'm honest about myself, and I don't apply for roles like that. Um, and so uh being a father has helped me be able to, again, man, just realize what human potential is and identify what people are good at and what they may not be good at and trying to help navigate them to where they should go.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's like as Sarah said, I'm I'm a relationship guy. Sarah is very much so a fixer. Like she likes to go see a puzzle and a problem, and she's there to go fix it.
SPEAKER_00:And she's you were a hot mess when I met you. She fixed you. Yeah, I'll agree with that. I'll agree with that. I'll agree with that. She's that she's definitely fixed.
SPEAKER_03:He broke me out of my shell though, too. I mean, so when I started an industry, I was a huge introvert, but I I knew I wanted to be a leader and had to figure out what my lane was, to your point, right? I started out my career in sales. And it's funny, about 11 years later, I feel like to your point, I know Sherman, you don't like this role, but I feel like as a PL owner, I have figured it out. I had, and and really, it's to Bryn's point, I have figured out that it's like, okay, I look from 12 different angles at once, and how can I adjust things? And how can I make us more efficient? How can I make this person a little bit faster at order entry? How can I make this coverage person create more relationships? Like, what can we do with these moving pieces? And I think to your point too, Sherman, I think you kind of made a point about this of you have the supportive people around you. I know I have leaders who helped me see that in myself. Yeah. Sometimes to your point, I didn't listen. Like there, there are people at Schneider who will listen to this, be like, Yeah, I I banged my head against the wall with Sarah because she didn't listen for a while. I totally admit that, right? But after a while, I figured out, okay, this is what I'm really good at. And I think it takes leaders who can be patient with you, but also who can give you those opportunities to see how you would do in that role. And yes, your primary job is X, but how can you get exposure with an initiative or with another team or shadowing or something of that nature to figure out, oh, maybe I'm actually really good at this. So I think that's been really eye-opening for me with the experiences of I've had throughout my professional career.
SPEAKER_00:That's cool, man. That's awesome. That's awesome. And you all make a good team.
SPEAKER_03:I appreciate that. We we we are it's it's a day-to-day progress. You know that, Sherman. I mean, with with a family and with marriage, I I think with our girls, it it's really one thing me and him have really adjusted with is one time management of hey, we're both in the very um, we're both trying to continue to progress our careers, especially in the leadership role. So, how do we do that in the same industry? So that that can be really challenging. But I think we we're definitely day by day figuring it out um and continuing to learn.
SPEAKER_02:So you gotta give your partner the biggest break. Like you, if you think about all the people like you come in contact with every day, the person that you need to give the biggest break to is your wife, right? And I think it's like you give so much grace to everyone else because like the person you have to give the most grace to is is your wife. And and I think at the same time, like all your mentors and all everything, like you give them gratitude, but how do you give gratitude back to your wife as well, right? All the small thank yous and things that eat we do for each other.
SPEAKER_03:So happy wife, happy life, right, Brett?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, that's it's a good phrase. It's a good turn of phrase.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it is, it is, it it is true, it is true.
SPEAKER_03:For sure. So I think one big topic in our industry right now is around the non-data cell TDLs, the enforcement, what looking into the crystal ball and how is that gonna affect the industry overall. So I wanted to get your take, Sherman, on how what you think is gonna happen in the next six to twelve months and how you think it's gonna affect the industry.
SPEAKER_00:So I'll be honest with you, I don't know. Um, and and I and I'll explain why. Um I have like you two a ton of relationships, not just at Schneider, but just a lot of different companies, and I'm really good at staying in touch with people. Um some of my you know mentors that I know have sold their companies for hundreds of millions of dollars in, you know, transportation companies. Um I keep them you know apprised of what's going on in the market. Even they've never seen it last, the freight recession lasts this long, um ever. Like ever. Uh so it's the breadth and the depth of the downturn. Um I do think that there's been a big issue. And so with the non-domicile piece and the uh uh illegal immigration piece, um we call it riding dirty. Um, you know, um, you know, I heard situations where it's companies where your ELD, you know, you can pull over and then 10 minutes later they give you the full set of hours, like you got fresh hours. I was like, when I heard those tactics, I was like, that's why race have been so low for so long. Because when you're running your trucking company above board um doing the hours of service, uh with the proper insurance, you know, with the pro with with you know, with the proper CDL licenses and all of those things, your operating costs are higher than if you're riding dirty, if that makes sense. So it it made complete sense to me. So I am happy uh to see they're gonna be clearing out different people uh that may not be riding legally. I think it's long overdue. I think that's a part of the reason why um we've had these challenges. Um now, volume. I'm I have a concern about a broader like economic downturn. Um you have kids, I have kids, I go, I do the grocery shopping in the family. Um and none of these the the prices are not dropping precipitously as as much as we would have thought. And so I think people are getting laid off, people are shopping less. Um, you know, if you if you look at the statistics, you can kind of see it. So Frey's already been in a recession for the past three years easily. I'm I'm concerned that the market's gonna turn over, and I don't know if the amount of drivers leaving, even if the government does clamp down, which it is, is gonna be enough to compensate for um a downward trend in consumer purchasing.
SPEAKER_02:Um you can really see the government, they're they're really they're really trying to add a lot more oversight over it. I mean, you look at the leaked documents of now looking at chameleon carriers as well. Uh, you know, those guys that'll really just exit and then come right back, you know.
SPEAKER_00:It's been a mess. It's been a mess, man. It's been a real mess. And and and anybody watching this post, I'm sure, uh, well, this podcast, excuse me, has dealt with theft. I mean, it's getting ridiculous, man. Um, they're hacking in to the, you know, online on a government website and changing the phone number of the carrier, you know, uh changing the emails and whatnot, and then impersonating a carrier. And so I think I gave it to between two titles, and you know, I gave it to between two riddles. I I don't even know who these it's with somebody else and it's gone. You know, I don't even know where it is, I don't know what happened. And then unfortunately, um, as much as we all love law enforcement, I get it. I'm more worried about a stabbing down the corner at a at a bar, at a bar fight, than I am about a stolen load of, you know, recycled copper that disappeared in California.
SPEAKER_02:It's not physical theft anymore. They're not, they're not, you know, taking the doors off the back of the trailer and doing that jazz or, you know, the truck getting stolen, which that that those thefts do happen, but it's you know, it's it's much more cyber. It's it's AI related. And you know, a lot of these brokerages now are getting hounded by fraudulent AI calls, right? And so technology to screen those out, you most likely have a 22 year old, 23 year old answering the phone, making decisions at their desk that impact large companies, right? And so they have to have safeguards to make sure that they can make the accurate decisions and relay that information in a timely manner as well, because you think about everything we do. Every day it's not like it's widgets or it's something that's completely safe. I mean, there's 80,000 pounds rolling down the road. I mean, you know, speaking of non domain, non-domicile CDL drivers, that driver that took a U-turn and killed, you know, three people, it's you you you really have to be careful now. And I think that's what a lot of companies are doing now is they're getting out in front and training, training, training, training as much as they can to spot some of these fake email addresses and these phishing schemes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And then also some of these fake AI agents that are calling in as well. Um just it's long overdue.
SPEAKER_00:It's long overdue, man. Um I think now it's pretty evident that it was a lot of you know shenanigans going around, people riding dirty, and we can't have it, man. Uh not not only is it not safe, which is the most important thing, because you know, family lost their life, which could have been our family, your family, my family, right? It's tragic. Um, not only is it not safe, it's not fair to trucking companies that are trying to adhere to the law and run legally at those higher price points and having to move freight at a loss that's not even covering the operating costs. Like that's not, that's not, you know, that's not fair. And so um I've I've been excited to see um um the administration taking more of a stance uh on that. Um, but again, depending on how many drivers that is, I hear different numbers. You know, um I don't know how many drivers or trucking companies that that is, but would that, I mean, let's say it's 200,000 or 300,000, is that gonna be enough to, you know, move the rates uh if consumer spend is going down? I I don't, I don't know. So so I'm I'm I'm honest enough to say I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:At these inspection points, they're still being put out of service for the normal things more often than non-CDL, and that's brakes, tires, et cetera, right? And it's that's the more things that are putting people out of service still. Um but I you know as far as the market's concerned, I feel like we've been in an uh a place where it's been six more months to the last three years. Six more months, you know, and it'll be there.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's what you say when you don't know. I think I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, this this last Q3, I think this is the first time when I articulate it. I think it's gonna be a full year. Uh, you know, I I really do think it's all of Q326 when we actually begin seeing a turn in the market. Now, that's not to say there could be a black swan event that happened prior. Um, I think there's gonna be a lot of broker brokerage uh brokerages that begin consolidating. Um I think also the agent model is really starting to get a lot of appeal. Um, I mean, it's there's a lot of people, you know, becoming agencies, becoming agents for a lot of these larger companies. And I truly think that's a pathway to freedom as well, because you look at some of these uh these splits that some of these guys are getting, and it's so enticing if you can really own your business and and walk the walk. Like, how how would you not join one of those and and really begin and you know, kind of uh for I think it's for no good it says eat what you kill, right? And so like, yeah, that's that's what you really want to do, right? Um but you know, my family comes from the bankruptcy world. You know, my dad led bankruptcy practices for a long time. My brother owns his uh has his own bankruptcy practice and he's practiced on the law side, and he says he's just he has too many cases to work himself. Uh and so when you think about where the market is, and you know, I think we'll really get a true sign if if we really see some strong retail consumer spending. You know, me and my wife did our part at Walmart today, uh buying gifts for the girls, but you know, looking around, you know, people people didn't have a lot of toys or anything else and electronics in their cart, they had food.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, people are struggling, man. Even with target, um, targets down and Walmart's growing, because they said households that are making above 100,000, they're moving from Target to Walmart to cut costs, man. So um, but regardless of when, you know, one of the ways that I've survived is by regardless of, you know, uh I grew up listening to, not grew up listening to, but one of my favorite um motivational speakers is called Jim Rohn. And and he talks about the set of the sail. You know, it's not about the weather. Um, it's it's the set it's the set of the sail uh on your boat that determines success. And so I just focused on, you know, people are still moving freight. I need to find who they are. Um so what and also where's the money? So right now, you know, what are some things that you can do to get to where money's going? So where money's going, as we know, data centers, but what are the things around that? Like the racking for the data centers, the um the cooling systems for the data centers. Um, you know, uh what does it take to build a data center? That's the beauty of uh AI, open AI, or um, I heard Gemini now, which is the Google one, has surpassed ChatGDP recently. I think it's an arms race where one of them's better than the other one, and then they come up with an upgrade and then it flips. But, you know, I I would advise everyone to use those tools and see, you know, what types of materials are, hey, I'm in the transportation business. You can literally ask it like you would a person. Like, what I'm in the transportation business and I'm interested in getting involved in, you know, shipping for data centers. What are some of the components that are used to make it? You know, what are some suggestions? It'll do that. It's a really good thinking tool that I've been trying to use, but um, that's where I'm trying to grow right there. Um, I do a lot of flatbed, uh, heavy haul, and over Dimitrico because of that. Um, like a lot of project-based freight is how I would say I've been able to survive and thrive through that environment. It's always something moving. But, you know, things like lumber, I'm not touching it. You know, it's no money in it for me. Um so I just kind of know where to play. I know where not to play. And there are always customers moving freight, some and always some that have a fair rate. You just have to, you know, be creative, be innovative, um, and out, you know, out hustle the competition, man. Out outthink them, um, you know, whatever that may be. But there's always freight moving. So that's how I've been able to survive and thrive during this time. You know, not growing as much as I would want to, clearly. You know, I don't I don't know that any of us are, but uh, but those data centers, it's a bunch of money being poured into that. Um, and so definitely would advise people that's uh looking to get into that space. And um, it's other spaces that are growing too. Like, what are things that the administration wants to happen in the US? Like they want to develop um, you know, manufacturing in the U.S. So look at near shoring and whatnot, like you know, Laredo border, cross cross border, different things. Like what are things that they're trying to do? And that's where the money's going. And so that's where the investments are going. So that's where you need to be looking and trying, how do you get involved in that from a freight perspective?
SPEAKER_03:You gotta find your value, you gotta find your niche. And especially when you're thinking about the brokerage side or even you know, asset-based carriers is you have a specific region, you have a specific need to fill. How can you find that match? And it's not just, hey, I'm gonna splatter rates against our RFP. It's hey, here's what I'm good at, here's the vertical I'm gonna go after, and here is how I can voice my expertise, right? And I've been telling my team, it's and this is Sarah Tittle's opinion, you know, we have seen a lot of regulation throughout the years of capacity is gonna exit the market, but the true bumps in the market where you've seen a capacity crunch is when demand spikes for one reason or another. It's gonna be demand. There is not gonna be enough capacity that exits the market for you to go and see rates just suddenly spike. Yes, is it good to your point that we are getting some bad actors out of the market that we're not operating legally? Let's say, right? But at the same time, is that gonna affect the market? It's not gonna affect the market until demand changes holistically. And so in the meantime, we've been talking about hey, how how do you go take it? To your point, somebody's moving it. Yeah, how do you go take it? Correct. So that's really been a a huge topic on our team at as of late, because everybody's talking about, well, will this be the thing? Will this be the thing that finally turns the market? You can't wait on it. No, you cannot wait on it.
SPEAKER_02:So for me from from the shipper angle, kind of the past few years, kind of seeing kind of how that operates, it's truly not just price. I mean, more often than not, you know, you're going more than I don't know if I need to give an a to give an actual number, but uh a lot of the time you you're going with your incumbents. Like you're you're not gonna go and and pick a new entrant uh to give a bunch of freight to, right? Especially in this market, who can you trust? Like uh really incumbency is so important, but that's also why I don't think you can just close an account and hand it off to someone like um you've gotta walk the floors, right? You gotta you've gotta go and be there with that person, you've got to make sure that they know how important it is because you you can't just close something and hand it off now and trust it goes okay because incumbency only lasts as good as you actually service that customer, right? And so you know the hardest part was done. Now now you've you've got them through the door, they've purchased now. Like, how do you play defense and keep that, right? And I think that the the worst thing is when before you put a ring on her, you know, everyone else was calling, right? And so like you made that commitment now, you really gotta go through with it. And I think that's the biggest thing is um one tipper once showed me his voicemail, uh, and it's it's a buddy that actually now transitions to he's a director of transportation for a company, and he's he gets one every three minutes, right? And and and one once once a day he'll pick one, listen to it, and decide whether he'll give them a shot or not.
SPEAKER_03:And so you continue to show value too.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Even after you get them in the door, it's you know, those voicemails every three minutes. Okay, what's gonna make them not pick up the phone? What do they value and checking in with them and keeping your ear to the ground from the warehouse workers to the coordinators to the directors to the VPs, the supply chain, how do you continue to show value throughout the chain so you're sticky? So they won't pick up the phone, so they won't listen to those voicemails.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. And in continuation of Brent's um analogy of you put a ring on it, once you put a ring on it, you need to continue to date your wife. So you need to continue to date the customer. Uh, you know, go out to eat, understand that, you know, what are the concerns they may be having? How is the service? How are we doing? You know, um, you know, are are you growing in your business? Are you shrinking in the business? What are some things we can do to facilitate to help that? Hey, you know, I got a customer that you should meet. I know you do this. Can you help them get a sale? You know, like what are some things that you can do to add additional value? So just it it it that's what I mean by getting creative. Your job is to shift the freight, keep costs low, keep everything efficient, but I also want to understand what the customer's business is, because I'm a sales guy. I can find them an opportunity, maybe it turns into an opportunity for them, a business um customer, maybe it doesn't, but they know I'm out here thinking about what I can do to add value to their business almost like I'm one of their employees. Um, to your point, Sarah, like that's that's extremely powerful. I always be looking for additional ways uh to add value. And and what do we mean by add value? How do you make them more money? How do you save them more money uh or save them time? Which is how do you make them look good to their boss? How do you make them look good to their boss? Correct.
SPEAKER_02:I'm gonna steal something from Sarah. She didn't say it, but I'm gonna say it before she did, is like tell them something about their business that they don't know. That's usually what Sarah is gonna say. So I'm sorry I stole it from Sarah.
SPEAKER_03:That was that was really impactful early in my career. And I was just a I was a senior sales representative at the time, but I had a leader, back to my point earlier of your leader setting you up and putting you in those situations to learn. They let me listen on a call with one of our top five customers in that center at the time. And that customer was like, hey, this is all great. I know you're, you know, you're servicing our freight well. We know you, pretty competitive on rate, but tell me about something my business, I don't know. And it just it made me look at things a lot differently. Um, I think even education outside of the industry makes you think about things differently. You talk to shippers, and even, you know, I I went back to school and I was wasn't sure what angle I was going to take it, but it really supply chain analytics made me think of a different angle from the shipper. And so it's how can you think about it from different angles is another way to look at it.
SPEAKER_01:That's good. That's good.
SPEAKER_02:Thinking about the community. So you're involved in a lot of things outside of trucking out as well as well as your career. Like I think it's the Rotary Club and other things. Can you speak about how that how that helps you impact the community and and how that actually helps you get a sense of fulfillment as well, like how that's like for you?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I am um really big on being a good whole person. Um so I'm involved in in my church. Uh, you know, a member of the Rotary Club involved there. So that's all of those things are giving back. Um I give back to employees and people I mentor as well, but you know, directly, you know, as an example, me, my wife and children, um, every, you know, a couple of times a year, we just did it three weeks ago where we were making meals for kids overseas. So you're putting rice and then a package. I don't know if you've done it before, and you go to this place and they're playing all this music, and it's it's you know, 10 different teams with kids.
SPEAKER_03:An assembly line.
SPEAKER_00:An assembly line, and you're putting together these meal packets that are gonna go. And so, you know, we'll package up, you know, 5,000, 10,000 meals or whatever in an hour's time, two hours' time. So doing things like that are to me are really important. Why is it it keeps me grounded? Uh, it lets me know that I'm blessed. Uh, one of the things I do see um with people is that we don't realize when we're already winning. Uh, even though we may not be where we want to be, um, and we have a vision to get further, uh, you also need to turn around and be thankful for how far you've come. Because you didn't get there alone. Uh, call and thank some of the people that helped you get there. Just out of the blue, like, hey man, I just really want to thank you. You had such an impact on my life. Like, if I never do anything for you, looking back, but don't be so focused on the future that you're neglecting um that you're already winning. Um, because I that's one thing that I see. Like, we we we don't we don't always understand. If we look at it by how far we've come, then we'll we'll see appreciation. But if you're looking at where you are and how far you have to go, it'll it it doesn't help you think the best, in my opinion. You kind of gotta look at the whole picture. Um, and looking back at the whole picture, like I'm I'm already success. You're already you guys are already a success. Um you understand? So so that's important to me with the civic work, is just it keeps me grounded. So I'll tell you a story I watched again, things I I think in terms of stories and whatever, but I I was watching uh, there's an old school rapper named LL Poo J. Um, and and they were talking of him in an interview. And he they said, What's something that you do to stay grounded? And he told a story that he went back, you know, he's a big movie star at the time. He got the TV show C S I or whatever, and he was rapping and all this stuff, and everybody knows him, and they're just adoring him. Fans, he can't go anywhere. All everybody likes him. And he said, What keeps me grounded is that, you know, I I go to my grandma's house and I sit down, I talk to her, and we're talking, and I'm like, okay, grandma, I'm getting ready to leave. And she like, hey, uh, Lawrence, or whatever his name was, the real name, hey, uh, take that trash out for me before you before you leave. And he's like, okay, Grandma. And he takes it out. He said, that's what kind of keeps me grounded. It reminds me, like, with all the glitz and the glamour, and everybody thinks you're big time or whatever. I'm still somebody's son, I'm still somebody's grandson, and I'm no, you know, I'm not better than other people. Like, so he said, going to being around his family kind of helps keep him grounded because he had to, you know, his grandma said, Yeah, take the trash out for me. And he did it. And I felt that too, you know, um, not just going home, but people that you grew up around, you know, it's like, hey, you know, Sherman, can you do this? And and my first gut reaction in my mind is like, what? You know, but then I'm sitting here thinking, like, yeah, to them, I'm just regular old Sherman that grew up around the block. So, okay, yes, ma'am, I'll take the water out the back of the car, you know, for the barbecue. Yes, ma'am. You know.
SPEAKER_02:I I think there's it's it's something in your soul that pulls you to do service and action like that, right? And so like seeing seeing someone struggling to put something in the backseat of their car and then and getting that gut feeling and then acting on it, right? And I think those are the those things that also make you more human, right? And I think to be honest, I think we're in such a relationship-driven business, people have that sick sense that they can tell whether you're a good human and you're you're you had give back, right? And it's not something that they can read on a resume or or or hear through you know our podcast, right? It's something that people get when they talk to you, right? They get it, they understand it, they can hear it in your voice. And yeah, that's that's something uh in our first interactions when I met you, I knew from then it's like you you have a higher calling. And I've I've always wanted just to just how close can I get to that, right? How close can I feel like that? And I you've always been a true inspiration for me there. So I just want to.
SPEAKER_00:And I've seen you all develop that same, you know, capacity and do the same. So it's just even with this podcast, I'm I'm really excited and I'm was just very it's just such an honor for you all to it's a million, you all know a million people. Um and you could have called a lot of other people. And um the fact that you called me, I I was I was surprised and and just, you know, uh I blushed. No, I know you're not gonna be.
SPEAKER_03:And I think it's always I think it's always about a balance too. You know, I my my husband and my team, anybody who's worked with me knows that I'm a very self-critical person. And so I think obviously we have we have to keep our minds on that, which I think is really important. But I think the other piece is know how far you've come to. I know, I know I've matured. You know, there are a lot of things early on in my career. I thought I thought we're molehills. Like it was such a big deal.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Right now, like I need to get this sale or this load didn't pick up, or oh my gosh, I remember somebody on one of our teams said, Sarah, we're not shipping hearts. And I that just sticks in my head. Like anytime I think something big's happening, like Sarah, you're not shipping hearts. It's okay.
SPEAKER_00:That's hilarious.
SPEAKER_03:Um, and so I just I think we have to remember who got us there and continue to give back. But I think we also got to give ourselves grace and also sometimes a pat on the back, which yeah, I know, and some of my team's gonna listen, and they're like, Sarah, that's funny you're saying that. Uh, because I I'm just so competitive. Sometimes we have that motor, and sometimes we forget, we forget to to self-reflect too in that angle.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially if leaders, you know, you're always looking at other people.
SPEAKER_03:How can I help you? But then sometimes you forget to look at yourself just as much and and realize how far you've come as well.
SPEAKER_00:And typically, yeah, typically, people like us, which I'd say are leaders or people that drive change, nobody's ever gonna be as critical on you as uh you're gonna be on yourself. Um yeah, nobody's ever gonna be as critical as you are yourself. It's just not it's just not possible, you know, because we have standards, which means you care. We care deeply. So uh, and that's that's a that's a leadership trait. Uh a lot of people don't have it. I get it. Some people are like take it or leave it. Ah, you know, I'll be all right or whatever. And it's stuff that I'm like, what are you kidding me, dude? Like, you know, we have a sense of urgency, and it's just another way of saying that we care. Um, and then we say when we say we're gonna do something, we we we do our uh best to try to try to accomplish that thing. Um, but yeah, a boss, I never met a boss as tough as I am on my as the boss that sits on my shoulder chirping in my ear, uh, you know, asking, have I given my best? You know.
SPEAKER_02:I just always think of Remember the Titans when he goes, attitude reflect leadership, right? And it's like it's it's so true though, right? And it's just like if if you're not in the trenches learning about every single person, because like your point is everybody's different, you're you're you're missing, right? And I think that's one thing where I've I've been blessed to have really good bosses. I I've had great bosses. I I think they've all put me in the position to where I am today. Uh so you know, I think it's I think that's why I just I know I've said it a lot, and I think it's Thanksgiving Thursday, but that's why it's just in my head is that, you know, how can you always show gratitude and and give back? Right. And so and like using your tools the best way possible to give back to this market, which is uh uh our the specific transportation sector is it's it's such a small ecosystem. And like how do we bring how do we bring up the the people that are coming into it now to help replace us? Right. And I think that's always like how do you how do you find that you know person who's gonna replace you and bring them up? Um Yeah, it's powerful.
SPEAKER_00:It's powerful, man.
SPEAKER_03:And I know it's it's actually a really good segue into kind of the next question I had of we we're thinking about the next next one up. We're thinking about the new entrants into the industry, the the next ones at the desk that we're gonna have on our team, Sherman, especially during a really interesting time in the logistics industry, in this environment. What advice would you give to somebody who's new coming into the logistics industry and and being at the desk and having their first day? Um, what would be your advice to them?
SPEAKER_00:Ask a ton of questions. Uh there are no dumb questions. Uh ask a ton of questions. Number two, I would take notes. Um I take notes. You can take them however you want to. I take utopius notes, like I write stuff down, diagrams. It's the way I think. So I think everybody should take notes. Um, but just understand the way you learn. Um are you a visual learner? I'm a visual learner. I have to kind of do it to learn, but then I need to write notes down so I can kind of go back and do it. So understand the way you learn. Uh don't don't take stuff personal. Um when you're in the throes of things and loads are moving, and you know, it's you know, don't don't wear your don't don't hold your heart in your hand and say, here, you know, be careful with it. Like, you know, um, don't take it personal.
SPEAKER_02:Um I can echo that one. That one took me a while to learn.
SPEAKER_00:It took me a while to learn to not take it personal. That they're yeah, they're there, uh it's like your kids or whatever, and if I'm busy, you know, doing something that's that's very serious, and my child comes up to me with something like, Hey Dan, let me show you this flip. It's like son, right now I don't want to burn. Um, you know, I'll just use an example, frying chicken. Hey, uh frying frying some tilapia or something. Like, hey man, get it get away from me. That child may take that personal. I I I love him to death, and it's not that I don't want to see it. I want to see it later, sweetie, but I just don't want you to get burned by the tilapia I'm picking. So kind of that that but the perception of that child is, oh, you know, maybe oh, dad rejected me or whatever. So that's a really big one. Don't take it personal. Uh, another thing I would do that I did, you don't have to do that. I don't want to date myself. Read transportation topics. It's free online. You don't even have to buy the back buy the darn magazines. DC Veloc, look follow people on LinkedIn that are experts in the field and just listen. It's gonna sound like, you know, for people that are non-Spanish speaking or whatever, it's gonna you it's not gonna make sense. But the more I remember when I started listening to CNBC because I wanted to learn about investing, it sounded like gibberish. I I didn't know what they were talking about. But over time, as you learn it and you can look it up words or whatever, you'll be learning more and more, um, just kind of through osmosis and being around. So engulf yourself in that language. You can listen to podcasts about transportation like this one, there's several other ones. Um, those are some of the top things you know that come to mind. Um, and don't quit too soon. Um I've seen some people, myself included, where there was pressure in the beginning when I first started a series Robinson, do I have what it takes? And I was kind of stressed out and I'm not sure if this will work. You don't know if you're good at it if you just three months in, six months in, you bounce out. Uh so give it some time. Give it a year or two before you can determine. Now, some people will come in and you're not a salesperson and it's pretty obvious. I'm not talking to that person, but I'm talking to that person where you're having some wins, you're a people person, you think you'll be good at it, but it's just not there quite yet, and you're stressed out and you're not sure. Give it a year or two before you make a before you take the dog out the pasture and say logistics isn't for me. Uh give it some time. Um, because once you get to a certain point, the game starts to slow down. Um, and it's and it starts to make sense. And that's when you'll be able to tell your full capability or not. But before that, you don't really know what you can do. Um it's like learning, like I mentioned on CNBC. I don't even understand the language, so I can't even think about the concepts because I'm just learning the lingo, you know. I can't make it. So if I watched it for two weeks and I'm like, man, forget it, I don't even know what they're talking about. I I would have missed, you know, I would have missed out on the opportunity to learn it, uh, if that makes sense. So those are some of the top things that are that come to my mind when talking to a to a fresh person that's new, this their first week.
SPEAKER_03:And I I totally agree. And and I think one one thing I would just add to that is find a good mentor who will give you feedback, whether that's your leader or a senior um associate, like senior sales rep was somebody when I first started out. It's like, hey, can I listen in on some of your calls? Can you listen in on some of mine? What would you do here? And give me some honest feedback and just be ready for constructive feedback too. Like to your point, don't take it personal. Like they've seen what works. Take that feedback and try to apply it and figure out your style. I think to your point, a year or two, you really figure out whether you're in sales operations, you figure out what style works for you. And you you see what succeeds and you see other examples. And so I think kind of goes, it pairs with giving it time.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, yep. And I would say too, a thing I learned, speaking of mentorship, um people that are your age and young and go-getters, they may not share as much information. It's better to go with people that you don't pose a threat to. So she says senior. So sometimes I went with even, you know, even when I was climbing up the corporate ladder, people that are close to retirement or whatever, people that are old, like they've been there 20 years. You fresh out of college, you pose no threat, you know. Like that person's a VP, senior VP, or they could have just they could be a senior sales rep for the past 20 years. They seen what works, they seen what doesn't work. You pose no threat to that person. So coming to you'll learn something from the top sales rep that's your age or whatever, but that person's competitive. They will tell you a little bit of stuff, but they may not give you the secret sauce. But somebody older sometimes, you'll get a more honest uh answer from that person. So I will put that tidbit there too.
SPEAKER_02:I got from both. I've got two things to add. One, one is your best ability, ability is availability, right? I think like, especially when you're younger, like jump in. It's like everyone's got the same, you know, everyone's got a light bulb above their head. You know, but it all goes off at different times, right? Yeah. You got your own clock. And so as long as you're working towards your own clock, the faster that light bulb will go off. Don't worry about what other people are doing because you don't know whether what the light bulb is. And I think the other thing is, is how can you get involved within an organization that's exterior to your company, right? So like maybe a local transportation club or a rotary club, somewhere you can go find someone who is open to mentorship and may not even be in the same line of business, but can help round you out as a professional. I think those those two things really hit home and and can really drive drive home your your growth in really great.
SPEAKER_00:100%. Yeah, join the traffic club or DFW, you know, for sure. Like Greg's doing some great stuff. We got to do that plug, man. It's it's it's a great organization. You're doing great things over there, man.
SPEAKER_03:Awesome. Uh before we conclude our time together, we're not just about freight, we're about fun here at Between Two Tittles. So um, to end our time together, wanted to do a couple of fun questions that we didn't necessarily prep you for.
SPEAKER_00:No, that's fine. That's fine.
SPEAKER_03:So Thanksgiving's coming up. So what is your favorite dish? The one where you go to a gathering. It's like, I'm looking for this to put on my plate every time.
SPEAKER_00:I learned how to make so I'm from Mississippi. I learned how to make cornbread dressing. Um we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't do stovetop stuffing in the South. At least I don't. So I can't say that. That sounds that sounds bad. I like cornbread dressing. So I'm looking for cornbread dressing. Um on the dessert side, I never saw a pound cake I didn't like. Um pie, I like pecan pie.
SPEAKER_03:Ooh, those are some solid choices. I'm a and I like cabbage too.
SPEAKER_00:I like cabbage. I like cabbage. Um I like cabbage too.
SPEAKER_03:Nice. Yeah. Chocolate pie. I'll go from the other way around. Dessert. So chocolate pie. Anything that has chocolate on it, you got me. Um I would say I'm I'm between dressing and just rolls. I know. Very simple. I get it. You know, I get it though. Got those simple Hawaiian rolls, like those.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Hawaiian rolls, yeah. Yeah. And they last five minutes. My kids kill those things, man. So I had to buy like two or three packs of them.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, and mac and cheese is good too. Like the things they'll have like their version of mac and cheese. You said dressing so I was like, oh, I gotta think of something different.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, mac and cheese. Yeah, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02:There's something about mac and cheese where it's like it's one of those rare entrees where insides where if you heat it up, it's actually better than it was the first time. Correct. So it's one of those, one of those ones that comes back from after the after the dinner, and you're like, all right, I want more of that. Me, yeah, uh, my sister makes this big thing of corn casserole every year. Uh always reach for it. It's got a cornbread top to it. It's good corn. It is amazing. So that's that's mine. Um, and my pie, my taste buds have changed over the years so much. My mom makes the homemade coconut pie, coconut cream pie with meringue top. Oh man. Oh man, it you know, it's the reason why I'm as big as I am, probably, because I love that pie. It's amazing. But those are my two reach fors every time.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:I can never guess the flavor he wants. Like he changes every year. Like, I think one year it was pumpkin, one year he made apple pie. Like he was on a pie streak one year and he made a bunch of pies. Like, I think he made five pies.
SPEAKER_02:That was before I lost all this weight, granted. Right. And so, Sherman, you as well. I mean, you lost weight. I lost weight. You lost a lot of weight.
SPEAKER_00:It's a journey, it's a journey, but this week is kind of gonna be a you know, so we went to live time this morning and spent an hour just to make sure.
SPEAKER_02:And I'll be going there tomorrow morning too and see what's going on.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm gonna try to I'm gonna try to do my thing, but I'm I'm I'm gonna eat something this week, bruh. I'm gonna eat something this week.
SPEAKER_02:That's fine, that's fine, that's fine. January's just around the corner. You gotta treat yourself a little bit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm gonna trick up.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And here's the more controversial one, in my opinion. Question. Okay. Brent probably gave away our answer with what's in the background here. But do you set up for Christmas prior to Thanksgiving? Or do you have to wait till after?
SPEAKER_00:My wife does that and we wait till after. Okay. She's very particular about it's my birthday with yeah. If you're gonna do set it up, it's gotta be that. So we still got pumpkins out front and turkey and stuff like you know. Nah, she's not pivoting. Now, if it were up to me, I actually like, and if you think about it, I don't know if you all listen to the radio. I don't often listen to the radio, but it's playing Christmas already. It's been playing Christmas for the past two, three weeks.
SPEAKER_03:Well, it's one of our favorite stations, is is it 1021, Brent?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's already playing.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. That's one of our favorite stations in both of our cars.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's like November, and I'm like, dang. And I kind of like that. So I I like the Christmas going already. Um my wife, I've been forbidden. Yeah, so.
SPEAKER_02:And then my last time. Happy Thursday pivoting. So is Die Hard a Christmas movie?
SPEAKER_00:Uh I think so, man. Um outnumbered. Yeah, I think so, man. Uh, it's non-traditional Christmas. I get it. But yeah, yeah, because yeah, I think of it as that. Yeah. Yi bekay. I'm excited. It comes on around Christmas. It was Christmas themed. Like, yeah, man, I think so.
SPEAKER_03:So he knows that I'm in the boat of I don't believe it's a Christmas movie. And so, funny story, part of my family does an ornament exchange. He purposefully bought a die hard ornament just to figure out a way to put it in the white elephant and get it for himself to put on one of our trees, and he hides it every year, so I can't find it.
SPEAKER_01:You gotta play to win it. Play to win. It goes up very tall. It goes up very tall on the tree. There's my friend is legit.
SPEAKER_04:I'll find the way I'll find the way.
SPEAKER_02:That is this has been a great, great first podcast. We appreciate you joining. Um, honestly, uh, you are a perfect guest to launch this off. And uh thank you again. Uh, we we couldn't show more gratitude to you. I definitely owe you a lunch.
SPEAKER_00:No, all good, man. Appreciate all you all are doing. I'm excited for you. Congratulations. And uh keep it going, man. Keep it going. And I'm I'm I'd love to come back anytime. Just gonna say the word. Awesome.
SPEAKER_02:Well, thanks again.
SPEAKER_00:Take care. Bye.